1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 2 IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF SANTA BARBARA 3 SANTA MARIA BRANCH; COOK STREET DIVISION 4 DEPARTMENT SM-2 HON. RODNEY S. MELVILLE, JUDGE 5 6 7 THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF ) 8 CALIFORNIA, ) 9 Plaintiff, ) 10 -vs- ) No. 1133603 11 MICHAEL JOE JACKSON, ) 12 Defendant. ) 13 14 15 16 17 REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 18 19 THURSDAY, APRIL 21, 2005 20 21 8:30 A.M. 22 23 (PAGES 7116 THROUGH 7163) 24 25 26 27 REPORTED MICHELE MATTSON McNEIL, RPR, CRR, CSR #3304 28 BY: Official Court Reporter 7116 1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL: 2 3 For Plaintiff: THOMAS W. SNEDDON, JR., 4 District Attorney -and- 5 RONALD J. ZONEN, Sr. Deputy District Attorney 6 -and- GORDON AUCHINCLOSS, 7 Sr. Deputy District Attorney 1112 Santa Barbara Street 8 Santa Barbara, California 93101 9 10 11 For Defendant: COLLINS, MESEREAU, REDDOCK & YU BY: THOMAS A. MESEREAU, JR., ESQ. 12 -and- SUSAN C. YU, ESQ. 13 1875 Century Park East, Suite 700 Los Angeles, California 90067 14 -and- 15 SANGER & SWYSEN 16 BY: ROBERT M. SANGER, ESQ. 233 East Carrillo Street, Suite C 17 Santa Barbara, California 93101 18 -and- 19 OXMAN and JAROSCAK BY: R. BRIAN OXMAN, ESQ. 20 14126 East Rosecrans Boulevard Santa Fe Springs, California 90670 21 (NOT PRESENT) 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 7117 1 I N D E X 2 3 Note: Mr. Sneddon is listed as "SN" on index. 4 Mr. Zonen is listed as "Z" on index. Mr. Auchincloss is listed as "A" on index. 5 Mr. Mesereau is listed as "M" on index. Ms. Yu is listed as "Y" on index. 6 Mr. Sanger is listed as "SA" on index. Mr. Oxman is listed as "O" on index. 7 8 9 PLAINTIFF'S WITNESSES DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS 10 11 BARRON, Brian 7120-SA (Contd.) 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 7118 1 Santa Maria, California 2 Thursday, April 21, 2005 3 8:30 a.m. 4 5 THE COURT: Good morning, everyone. 6 THE JURY: (In unison) Good morning. 7 COUNSEL AT COUNSEL TABLE: (In unison) 8 Good morning, Your Honor. 9 MR. SANGER: Good morning, Your Honor. 10 THE COURT: Mr. Sanger? 11 MR. SANGER: Thank you, Your Honor. 12 Could we please have the document screen 13 again, please? There we go. 14 All right. With the Court's permission, 15 we'll resume with Exhibit 334. And the Court may 16 recall this is a series of a couple hundred 17 documents and they have the Bates stamped number on 18 the bottom, so we'll be referring to those by the 19 MJ00 three-digit number, sometimes four-digit 20 number. 21 Is that all right, Your Honor? 22 THE COURT: You may do so. 23 MR. SANGER: Thank you. 24 25 BRIAN BARRON 26 Having been previously sworn, resumed the 27 stand and testified further as follows: 28 // 7119 1 CROSS-EXAMINATION (Continued) 2 BY MR. SANGER: 3 Q. And in that regard, Mr. Barron, or Officer 4 Barron, we had gotten to this period of time, just 5 before we stopped yesterday, where the gate log 6 showed from 2-17 to 2-20. Do you recall that? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And that was not the usual mode of 9 recording. Usually it was day by day; is that 10 correct? 11 A. That's correct. 12 Q. All right. So I'm going to show you 149 13 here again. Even though we had gotten up to 2-20, I 14 want to go back to that period for a couple of other 15 entries, all right? 16 So just to remind us where we were, I have 17 MJ00149 up on the board. And that is the one that 18 said 2-17 through 2-20-03, correct? 19 A. Correct. 20 Q. And at the top, that had the extensive list 21 of guests and where they were staying, correct? 22 A. Correct. 23 Q. And then it shows "CO," so it's carry-over 24 for the Arvizo family, and then it has times out, 25 but those times out are not necessarily coordinated 26 with a particular day; is that correct? 27 A. Correct. 28 Q. All right. Now, I'm going to refer to 00152 7120 1 and put that up on the board, if I may. Shows, at 2 the bottom, 152. 3 Do we have our laser pointer, by any chance? 4 If you have it. 5 152. And then up at the top there's an 6 entry that I'm going to -- I'm going to push the 7 wrong button. I'm sorry. There we go. Sorry. I'm 8 going to push the -- that button. See if you can 9 read that entry. 10 Do you have it there? 11 MS. YU: No, somebody took it out. 12 MR. SANGER: All right. That's all right. 13 Q. Are you able to read the top entry there 14 after I stop moving it? Just a second. There we 15 go. Can you read that entry? 16 A. At 3:05? 17 Q. Yes. Would you like to have another copy up 18 there? 19 A. I think -- I believe it says Marie Nicole, 20 Danielle, Aldo are staying upstairs theater. 21 Q. Okay. And this particular gate log is dated 22 2-18-03, correct? 23 A. Correct. 24 Q. Now, what would be the purpose of that 25 particular entry; do you know? 26 A. So we would know where they were. 27 Q. So that would be a reference to where those 28 particular guests were staying on that particular 7121 1 day; is that correct? 2 A. That's correct. 3 Q. So as of 3:05, those guests had decided to 4 stay in the upstairs theater, correct? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. All right. We'll skip ahead, then, to -- I 7 don't want to get this out of order. We'll skip 8 ahead to 155. Now, I'm going to show you 155. 9 And I'll try to speak up when I come back 10 here? If anybody can't hear, raise a hand so the 11 Court and bailiff know. 12 That's for 2-19-03, correct? 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. And on this, I want to direct your attention 15 to the top part of this one. It appears to indicate 16 Hamid, a photographer. 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Okay. And by the way, there's a column that 19 says, "CONF." What does that mean? 20 A. Confidentiality, if they need to sign one or 21 not. 22 Q. So a person who has been there doesn't have 23 to sign that agreement each time they come in, 24 correct? 25 A. Correct. 26 Q. And the agreement basically says, "I'm not 27 going to disclose private things about Mr. Jackson's 28 residence"; is that right? 7122 1 A. Correct. 2 Q. Okay. And it shows that Hamid and 3 apparently a couple other people, a Mark Adams and a 4 Ray Dominguez, arrived at 1620 hours, is that 5 correct, 4:20 in the afternoon? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And departed at 2010 hours, which would be 8 8:10 in the evening, correct? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Now, other -- let me ask you, did you have a 11 chance to review these logs since you testified 12 yesterday? 13 A. No. 14 Q. All right. I'm going to show you now 157. 15 And I think this was really the last one that we put 16 up yesterday. And this shows -- let me back this up 17 a little bit. 00157 is for 2-20-03, correct? 18 A. Correct. 19 Q. And this one shows that the Arvizos returned 20 to the property at 1420 hours, or 2:20 in the 21 afternoon, on the 20th of February, 2003, correct? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And it also shows that Aja Pryor and 24 something Tucker, that's cut off there, returned at 25 the same time? 26 A. Yes. 27 Q. So it indicated all those people came to the 28 gate at the same minute, correct? 7123 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And generally that would indicate they came 3 in the same vehicle? 4 A. Generally, yes, it would. 5 Q. All right. Now, if we go to the next page, 6 which would be 00158, which I'll put up, that shows 7 158 at the bottom. If we look at the top, that's 8 also for 2-20-03, correct? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And you indicated there usually are three 11 pages per day; is that right? 12 A. Generally, yes. 13 Q. Generally. So this is just another page for 14 that same day? 15 A. If it's dated the same day, then yes. 16 Q. Yeah. And what I would like to do is direct 17 your attention to -- see if I can get it in there so 18 you can still read it. 19 If you look at the entrance for 1420 -- 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. -- that's the same time that was indicated 22 on the preceding page that the Arvizos, Aja Pryor, 23 and Destin Tucker arrive; is that correct? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And here the entry indicates Jesus S., so 26 let's start with that. That would be Jesus Salas; 27 is that correct? 28 A. Correct. 7124 1 Q. Jesus Salas cleared Aja Pryor, Dustin 2 Tucker, Gavin Arvizo, Star Arvizo, Davellin Arvizo 3 to come in, correct? 4 A. Correct. 5 Q. And the purpose of that entry is what, that 6 type of entry? 7 A. That type of entry is generally for, first 8 of all, whomever's at the gate to know to let 9 someone in if they don't have prior -- you know, if 10 we haven't been given a list of somebody who's 11 coming in that day, and then to let the oncoming 12 shift know that they're there. 13 Q. So that would be further evidence in these 14 logs that all of those people just mentioned, Pryor, 15 Tucker, and three Arvizos, came back to the ranch at 16 1420 hours on February the 20th, correct? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. Oh, I'm sorry, there was one other thing on 19 that. It also looks like Shane Brando ran over 20 somebody's foot with a cart, is that true, at about 21 1815 hours? 22 A. If that's what it says, I'm assuming it's 23 true. 24 Q. And then 1924, it looks like Shane Brando 25 hit Gavin Arvizo with a cart? 26 A. Yes. 27 Q. And then the cart was taken away, all right? 28 A. Yes. 7125 1 Q. Okay. So, again, somebody in security or 2 somebody on the staff, when they saw that there was 3 a safety issue, exercised supervision over guests on 4 the ranch; is that correct? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. And it shows Gavin is Code 4, right? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And then it says, "Received EMT care from," 9 what does that say, K-10 and K-13? 10 A. No, it's R-10 and R-13. 11 Q. R-10 and R-13, are those designations for 12 people that worked on the ranch? 13 A. "R" is Robert. It's a call sign over the 14 radio, so we're not using each other's name. 15 Q. So whoever it was who responded from the 16 fire department came down to give him some sort of 17 emergency care to make sure he's okay, is that 18 right? 19 A. Yes. Robert 10 gave the care. Robert 13 20 wrote it down. 21 Q. There you go. When it says, "Gavin, 22 Code 4," Code 4 means no further assistance 23 required, okay? 24 A. Yeah, he's okay. 25 Q. If you say, in police talk basically, 26 "Code 4," you mean no further assistance, 27 everything's okay? 28 A. Correct. 7126 1 Q. All right, good. We're going to skip ahead 2 here to 160. I'm putting up 160. Now, that's for 3 2-21-03; is that correct? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And at the bottom, it shows, "Vincent 6 Black," yes, "22" -- I think that says "55," "2255," 7 correct? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. So that would indicate -- even though it's 10 written on the bottom, it would indicate, sir, that 11 Vincent Black arrived, had to sign an agreement, 12 right? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And that he arrived at 2255 hours, correct? 15 A. Pull the paper down a little more. 16 Q. Certainly. Would you like to look at a -- 17 would it be easier to look at a full sheet? 18 A. Yes, my eyes haven't adjusted from yesterday 19 yet. 20 MR. SANGER: All right. May I approach, 21 Your Honor? 22 THE COURT: Yes. 23 MR. SANGER: Excuse me. Does anybody want 24 to see this? I'm just going to show him my copy. 25 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Go ahead. 26 THE WITNESS: Mr. Black did need to sign a 27 confidentiality, and he was checked in at 2255. 28 It's on the bottom, because there's no more room for 7127 1 guests here. 2 Q. BY MR. SANGER: All right. So, the fact 3 that it's put in the margin is of no significance 4 other than the fact you ran out of room on the form, 5 right? 6 A. Yes, and the officer didn't want to start a 7 new sheet. 8 Q. For ecological reasons, I assume? 9 A. Sure. 10 Q. It says "CO" next to the 2255, so that means 11 Mr. Black checked in at 10:55 at night, he came 12 through the gate at 10:55 at night, and then he 13 stayed to the next day, correct? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. And below it, it says Janet Arvizo, correct? 16 A. Correct. 17 Q. That tends to indicate that Janet Arvizo 18 came in at 2255 hours as well; is that correct? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And she was not required to sign a 21 confidentiality agreement? 22 A. No. 23 Q. And then she also stayed overnight that 24 night; is that correct? 25 A. Yes. 26 Q. And if we go up here, higher on the sheet, 27 we see among the guests who were there on this day, 28 the 21st of February, you also had Aja Pryor, 7128 1 correct? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And then Destin Tucker, correct? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And then the Arvizo children, Gavin, Star 6 and Davellin? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And it shows that the Arvizos were there 9 from the night before, and they continued on to the 10 next day without checking out; is that correct? 11 A. That's correct. 12 Q. Okay. And then, of course, there are other 13 people that are listed on the list. We won't go 14 through each one. There are other guests there that 15 day? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. All right. There you go. 18 May I approach to retrieve that? 19 THE COURT: Yes. 20 Q. BY MR. SANGER: Now, we'll go to page 164, 21 if I may. It's MJ00164. Show that. And that's for 22 February 22nd, 2003; is that correct? 23 A. Okay. 24 Q. It's hard to read. Maybe counsel would 25 agree that when you look at it closely it says the 26 22nd. If not, let me approach. 27 May I approach, Your Honor? 28 THE COURT: Yes. 7129 1 MR. SANGER: I'll tell you what -- 2 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: I can't read it on mine. 3 MR. SANGER: Let's do this. 4 THE WITNESS: Is there a date on the top or 5 just one on the bottom? 6 Q. BY MR. SANGER: No, there's just one on the 7 bottom. But let me show you the -- let me show you 8 that page. 9 May I approach with that page? 10 I'm going to show you page 00164, and ask 11 you to take a look -- excuse me, take a look at the 12 date at the bottom, and see if you can tell the date 13 from that. 14 A. I'll agree it's the 22nd. 15 Q. All right. Thank you. And it would be in 16 order, correct? There should be other pages 17 pertaining to the 22nd in the book, correct? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. All right. Okay. So there's the date. And 20 I'm putting 00164 back up on the screen. And do you 21 see there is the entries for Gavin, Star, Davellin 22 in the guest information? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Okay. Gavin, it shows -- under "Limo/POV," 25 it shows "#2." What does that represent to you? 26 A. To me that would represent he was staying in 27 Guest Unit 2. 28 Q. And it shows Star Arvizo, ditto, is also in 7130 1 Guest Unit 2; is that correct? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And they were both staying overnight. They 4 had been there and they stayed over to the next time 5 period, to the next 24-hour period, correct? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. If you look at Davellin, what does that say? 8 A. Upstairs viewing. 9 Q. And upstairs viewing would be the room in -- 10 one of the rooms in the theater; is that correct? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. So that indicates that she was staying in 13 the upstairs viewing part of the theater; is that 14 correct? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And if you look up at the third entry up 17 there, you have Cascio, comma, Marie Nicole; is that 18 correct? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And it shows that she was also staying in 21 the upstairs viewing in the theater; is that 22 correct? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. All right. And she also stayed overnight, 25 correct? 26 A. Yes. 27 Q. Okay. And down at the bottom it shows Janet 28 Arvizo, correct? 7131 1 A. Correct. 2 Q. And it shows No. 4. Is that Guest Unit 3 No. 4? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Now, is Guest Unit No. 4 the guest unit that 6 Elizabeth Taylor likes to stay in when she visits? 7 A. I have no idea. 8 Q. Okay. Is it a nice guest unit? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And it shows Janet Arvizo was staying 11 overnight. She had been there at midnight, and she 12 was there at the next cutoff, which would be the 13 next midnight; is that correct? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. Okay. We'll go to MJ00166, and that's 16 2-23-03; is that correct? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Now, on this date, we have the Arvizos shown 19 again as staying at the ranch; is that correct? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And they were all staying -- they had all 22 been there and they were all staying overnight as 23 guests again, correct? 24 A. Correct. 25 Q. And Gavin and Star are in Unit 2; is that 26 right? 27 A. Yes. 28 Q. Davellin's at the theater upstairs? 7132 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And Janet is in Unit 4? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. All right. And Marie Nicole Cascio is also 5 in the theater upstairs, the same place as Davellin; 6 is that correct? 7 A. Correct. 8 Q. Now, it's possible for people at Neverland 9 to -- for guests at Neverland to request the 10 services of staff people there; is that correct? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And in a sense, it's almost like a hotel as 13 far as service is concerned; is that right? 14 A. That's correct. 15 Q. If somebody wants to call and have coffee 16 brought to them or breakfast or anything, they can 17 simply call and that will be done for them; is that 18 correct? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. If somebody wants to call and have their 21 laundry done, for instance, if they have laundry or 22 cleaning that needs to be done, somebody would come 23 and pick it up and take care of it for them; is that 24 right? 25 A. That's correct. 26 Q. If somebody wants to have a wake-up call, 27 they can make a request for a wake-up call; is that 28 correct? 7133 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. So I'm going to show 167 here, if I may. 3 167. By that I mean 00167, and the top is 4 2-23-03. And here this shows that a wake-up call is 5 requested for Unit 4 at seven o'clock in the 6 morning; is that correct? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. All right. Let's skip ahead. I like to say 9 that. It gives everybody a false sense of progress 10 here. We are getting there. Skip ahead to 171, if 11 I may. 00171 is 2-24-03, correct? 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. Okay. Now, there's a number of entries I'd 14 like to -- a number of entries I'd like to focus on 15 here. First of all, let's look at -- Gavin and Star 16 Arvizo were staying in Unit 2, correct? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. Davellin is again at the theater? 19 A. Correct. 20 Q. Janet Arvizo is in Unit 4; is that right? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Okay. Now, it appears that the Arvizos were 23 there overnight from the night before, correct? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And then it appears that they all left at 26 1634 hours, which would be 4:34 in the afternoon; is 27 that right? 28 A. Yes. 7134 1 Q. And then it appears that Gavin and Star and 2 Janet came back at 2005, which would be 8:05 p.m.; 3 correct? 4 A. Correct. 5 Q. And then they stayed overnight till the next 6 day, right? 7 A. Correct. 8 Q. And then Davellin came back at 1855, which 9 would be 6:55, five minutes to 7:00 in the evening, 10 correct? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. So it looks like they all left together, but 13 Davellin came back a little earlier, and Janet, Star 14 and Gavin stayed out and did something else and came 15 back later, right? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. All right. Now, if we look down on this 18 sheet -- and by the way, do you know if Gavin and 19 Star were taken to the dentist at some point? 20 A. I don't remember that. 21 Q. All right. This is not a day that you were 22 particularly on duty, was it? 23 A. Which day? 24 Q. This day, which is 2-24-03. 25 A. You'd have to show me the other log. 26 Q. That would be 172. Let me put that up. 27 This is 00172. And can you tell whether or not you 28 were on duty that day? 7135 1 A. No. Not according to that. 2 Q. I'm going to put 00171 back up. And let's 3 see if we can figure this out. It looks like from 4 the top that the whole Arvizo family left at 1634 5 hours. And then if you look down at the bottom, it 6 says, "Employee vehicle," and the second entry shows 7 "Vinnie, Arvizos 4," correct? 8 A. The second entry down? 9 Q. Yes. 10 A. No, that would be on the first entry. 11 Frank, Vinnie. 12 Q. Frank and Vinnie. Okay. That's fair 13 enough. 14 That says, "Frank and Vinnie, brown dually." 15 Was there a -- or some kind of dually. Is there a 16 dually? 17 A. Yes, it's a brown dually. 18 Q. Okay. And a dually, as most people know 19 here, has got dual wheels in the back of the truck? 20 A. Correct. 21 Q. It looks like they went out in a brown 22 dually at 11:05 in the morning and got back at 3:11 23 in the afternoon, correct? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Okay. And the next entry, the one I was 26 focusing on -- and it seems to be cut off just a 27 little bit there. The second one says, it looks 28 like "Vinnie," does it not? Or, "i-n-n-i-e," 7136 1 a little bit of a first letter got cut off? 2 A. Could I see your sheet? I -- 3 Q. You can see mine, sure. If it's all right 4 with the Court. 5 May I approach? 6 THE COURT: Yes. 7 THE WITNESS: It doesn't look like "Vinnie" 8 to me. 9 Q. BY MR. SANGER: What does it look like? 10 A. "Chris." 11 Q. Oh, "Chris"? Okay. Anyway, you see -- I'm 12 going to move away - because I'm not supposed to 13 talk up here - so I don't have to walk back and 14 forth. 15 You see where it says, "Arvizos 4"? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And whatever that says before, it might be 18 "Chris," it might be anything, but whatever it is, 19 after "Arvizos 4," it then says, "Pontiac," right? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. So somebody took a Pontiac out. Was that a 22 ranch vehicle? 23 A. I don't recall a Pontiac. It doesn't mean 24 there wasn't one. I don't recall a Pontiac. 25 Q. Do you remember Vinnie was driving a 26 Pontiac, if he brought a Pontiac to the ranch? 27 A. I have no idea. 28 Q. Did Vinnie at that time -- do you recall 7137 1 Vinnie having some kind of a vehicle that he brought 2 to the ranch? 3 A. No, I -- I don't recall his vehicle 4 whatsoever. 5 Q. Okay. You don't recall either way, whether 6 he brought one or didn't bring one? 7 A. No. 8 Q. All right. In any event, somebody with four 9 Arvizos took a Pontiac and left at 1634, correct? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. If we look up at the top, that's consistent 12 with the check-out at the gate, 1634, of the family; 13 is that correct? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. And then whoever that was with the Arvizos 16 came back at 1855 hours, correct? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. If we look up at the top, it would appear 19 that whoever came back with that vehicle brought 20 Davellin back; is that correct? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And so Janet and the boys remained out until 23 2005 hours, right? 24 A. Right. 25 Q. And if we look at the next entry, we've got 26 Joe Marcus, right? 27 A. Right. 28 Q. Joe Marcus is the ranch manager; is that 7138 1 correct? 2 A. If he still is. He was at that time, I 3 believe, yes. 4 Q. That's fine. As of the time, he was the 5 ranch manager, correct? 6 A. Yes, he was. 7 Q. And do you know Joe? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Is he a good guy, decent guy? 10 A. Yes. 11 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection; relevance. 12 THE COURT: Sustained. 13 Q. BY MR. SANGER: Okay. You get along with 14 Joe Marcus? 15 A. At times. 16 Q. All right. At times not, I gather. All 17 right. 18 A. Well, I did at the time. 19 Q. You did at the time? 20 A. At the time, yes, I did. 21 Q. And had Joe Marcus, to your knowledge, been 22 at the ranch for a long time? 23 A. Very long. 24 Q. In fact, his father had been the ranch 25 manager for the prior owner; is that right? 26 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection; relevance. 27 THE COURT: Sustained. 28 Q. BY MR. SANGER: All right. Now, it shows 7139 1 Joe Marcus has -- took a gray van; is that right? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And was the gray van one of the ranch 4 vehicles? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And it appears that he left at 1759 hours, 7 which would be one minute to 6:00 in the evening; is 8 that correct? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. And then came back at 2005 hours; is that 11 right? 12 A. That's right. 13 Q. And when you look at the -- put two and two 14 together here, the Arvizos, Janet and the two boys, 15 came back at that time. It would appear that they 16 came back with Joe Marcus; is that right? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. We'll go to 174. And 174, MJ00174, was from 19 February the 25th, 2003; is that correct? 20 A. Correct. 21 Q. And here we see that the Arvizos, Gavin and 22 Star, stayed overnight, correct? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And they were in Unit 2; is that right? 25 A. That's right. 26 Q. And then Davellin and Janet were in Unit 4; 27 is that correct? 28 A. Correct. 7140 1 Q. The Arvizos, all four of them, stayed 2 overnight? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And then they left at 7:25 in the morning -- 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. -- is that correct? 7 So at 7:25 on the morning of February 25th, 8 they leave the ranch? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And if you look down a little farther, it 11 says, "Vinnie," who is apparently staying in the 12 video library, he stayed overnight and he left at 13 7:25 in the morning? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. So it looks like Vinnie and the Arvizos left 16 together at that time, correct? 17 A. They left at the same time. If they left 18 together, I don't know, but they definitely left at 19 the same time. 20 Q. All right. Now, let's go to 180. This will 21 be 00180 that I'm putting up. And this skips ahead 22 now to February the 27th, '03, correct? 23 A. Correct. 24 Q. I'm going to direct your attention in this 25 case to Frank Cascio. 26 A. Yes. 27 Q. It appears that Frank Cascio returned to the 28 ranch on February the 27th, '03, at 1735 hours or 7141 1 5:35 in the afternoon; is that correct? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. And we'll go to 00181. 181. February 27th. 4 This is another one of those sheets that pertains to 5 the same day; is that correct? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And at 735 -- I'm sorry, 1735 hours, the 8 same time that was shown on the previous sheet, it 9 shows that Jesus Salas cleared Frank Cascio to come 10 on the property; is that correct? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. That's just further indication that Frank 13 Cascio came back to the property at 1735 hours on 14 that day? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. All right. And I'll put up 183. And this 17 is 00183 on February the 28th, '03. And directing 18 your attention to the third line down under "Guest 19 Information." It shows Frank Cascio; is that 20 correct? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. So on February the 28th, it shows that he 23 had been on the ranch from the previous day, and 24 continued to stay on the ranch to the next day? 25 A. Yes. 26 MR. SANGER: Okay. Your Honor, I'm now, 27 with the Court's permission, going to go to Exhibit 28 335 and proceed in the same fashion. That's a 7142 1 couple hundred pages. So I'm going to pick out a 2 few of those pages and make reference to the Bates 3 stamp number, if that's all right 4 THE COURT: That's fine. 5 MR. SANGER: Thank you. 6 Q. Just so we're oriented here, there's the 7 Court's Exhibit No. 335 that starts on page MJ00185, 8 and the date on that page is March 1, 2003, correct? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And that was not a leap year, so February 11 had 28 days; is that right? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Okay. So the next day, from the last page 14 we showed, would be 3-1; is that right? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. And in the back they're in these envelopes, 17 back to back, here. I'm going to show you 186, 18 which also says 3-1-03. 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And it looks like somebody's trying to give 21 February 29 days there, but tried to correct it? 22 A. Looks that way. 23 Q. And I want to focus your attention on the 24 last line there of the guest information log where 25 it says, "Frank Tyson," and that means that Frank 26 was staying at the video library, and he stayed 27 overnight; is that correct? 28 A. Correct. 7143 1 Q. And it didn't -- it didn't show that he 2 checked out that day? 3 A. No, it doesn't. 4 Q. All right. I do see at the bottom, it says 5 Frank/Chris took a gray van from 1:30 in the 6 afternoon to 4:30. Is that an indication that Frank 7 Tyson or Cascio went out with Chris? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Okay. There was not another Frank there at 10 the time, that you're aware of? 11 A. Not that I'm aware of, no. 12 Q. But they came back, right? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And so Frank, as far as you can tell, was an 15 overnight visitor that night as well? 16 A. As far as it shows. Didn't show that he 17 left. Doesn't show that he was carried over, so 18 very possibly. 19 Q. And then let's go to -- 20 Okay, Your Honor, this is the exhibit as it 21 exists from the way it was presented by the 22 prosecution. This particular page does not have a 23 Bates stamp number on the bottom. I'll show it to 24 counsel. This does not have a Bates stamp number. 25 It follows Bates stamp number 33673 and precedes 26 Bates stamp number 33675. 27 THE COURT: I see that. 28 MR. SANGER: So I'm going to put that page 7144 1 up. 2 THE COURT: All right. 3 MR. SANGER: And I'm going to hope it 4 focuses. There we go. 5 Q. Okay. So no Bates stamp number, but it does 6 say 3-2. So that's March the 2nd, 2003, correct? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And on March the 2nd, 2003, Frank Tyson, it 9 shows, stayed overnight from the night before, 10 correct? 11 A. Excuse me, correct. 12 Q. And then it shows 1630 that he left; is that 13 right? 14 A. On -- that who left? 15 Q. Frank Tyson. Am I not reading it correctly? 16 A. I'm sorry, I was -- yes. Six -- 17 Q. Let's take our time here. I'm sorry if I 18 confused you -- 19 A. I apologize, I had to work last night. 20 Q. You worked last night? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Okay. I apologize, I'm sorry that you have 23 to be here after doing that. 24 All right. We'll try to get you through 25 this here. But take a look at it again, take your 26 time. Looks like it says, "ank," a-n-k, "Tyson." 27 A. Yes. 28 Q. That's Frank Tyson, right? 7145 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And where it says 3625, are those the 3 phone -- 4 A. Phone extensions. 5 Q. And those phone extensions are where? 6 A. In the video library. 7 Q. So it's another way of saying that's where 8 he was? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. It shows he stays overnight and then it 11 shows 1630, it appears that he left; is that 12 correct? 13 A. To me, it looks like 20 from here. 14 Q. All right. Whatever it says, that would be 15 the time that he left, according to this log; is 16 that correct? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. And down at the bottom it says, "Frank 19 Tyson" again, and it shows "out." That means he 20 took a ranch vehicle of some sort and left; is that 21 right? 22 A. It should, if it was put there. 23 Q. All right. And that, I think, says 1305? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. So 1:05 in the afternoon. And then it shows 26 "in," meaning he came back at 3:30 in the afternoon, 27 right? 28 A. Yes. 7146 1 Q. All right. And it looks like at 4:30 or 2 4:20, whatever that says, he may have left again; 3 is that correct? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Now, there's a star next to his name, and 6 what does that mean? 7 A. Most likely that he came back and the person 8 at the gate didn't record the time he came in. 9 Q. All right. 10 A. But if there was a star there, most likely 11 whomever was at the gate knew that he was there. 12 Q. That he came back on the property but they 13 just didn't record the exact time? 14 A. They didn't record the exact time. 15 Q. If you look up above that, we see what I 16 think says, "n-n-i-e." 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. And that shows that probably Vinnie; is that 19 correct? 20 A. Probably. 21 Q. All right. Arrived at 1430 hours. It 22 should be 2:30 in the afternoon. 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And that he left at 1630 hours, correct? 25 A. Yes. 26 Q. And then there's a star, indicating he came 27 back and somebody forgot to put it down? 28 A. Correct. 7147 1 Q. So if we put those two together, it looks 2 like Frank Tyson and Vinnie probably left at the 3 same time, around 4:30 in the afternoon; is that 4 right? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. All right. Now, we also see that the Arvizo 7 family came back, and we have Gavin, Star, and 8 Davellin -- whose name is now recorded as "Davida" 9 or something; right? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. -- and Janet all came back at about 2:30, 12 apparently with Vinnie. 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. All right. I'm going to go to 033667, which 15 is dated 3-3-03, correct? 16 A. Correct. 17 Q. And this shows that -- excuse me one second. 18 (Off-the-record discussion held at counsel 19 table.) 20 Q. BY MR. SANGER: This shows -- just going 21 down the list, on this particular date, which is 22 3-3-03, Vinnie was there, stayed overnight, and then 23 he left at ten minutes after noon; is that correct? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. It doesn't show that he came back that day? 26 A. No. 27 Q. Then you have Gavin, Star, "Davellia" and 28 Janet Arvizo all staying overnight both from the 7148 1 night before and till the next night, right? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. This shows both the extensions and the room 4 numbers, or the unit numbers in some cases, right? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. So Gavin was staying in Unit 3, which is 7 Extension 20 on the phone; is that right? 8 A. Correct. 9 Q. Star was staying in Unit 4, which is 10 Extension 21, is that correct? 11 A. Correct. 12 Q. We'll skip one there and go to Janet Arvizo 13 was staying in Unit 4, also at Extension 21, also? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Now, Davellin was staying -- first it said 16 Extension 3. I'm sorry, it said, "Unit 3." That's 17 scratched out and it says, "Extension 50"; is that 18 correct? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And Extension 50 is out at the theater; is 21 that right? 22 A. Been a while. I -- I know 48 is. So it 23 could be, yes. I don't remember which one 50 was 24 at. 25 Q. But in any event, wherever 50 is, it's not 26 one of the guest units? 27 A. No. 28 Q. So it's someplace else on the ranch, right? 7149 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And that shows that she was staying at 3 whatever room was associated with Extension 50; is 4 that correct? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. All right. Now, there are also -- and 7 throughout, we've been not commenting on everybody 8 who was staying there, but if you look down at the 9 bottom there, it says Rio and Simone. 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And you know who they are? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Does it appear that Rio and Simone arrived 14 at about eight o'clock at night on the 3rd of March? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And then they stayed overnight; is that 17 right? 18 A. Correct. 19 Q. And who are Rio and Simone? 20 A. They are cousins, I believe, of Mr. Jackson. 21 Q. Okay. And I'm going to go to 189. 00189, 22 and that's for 3-4-03; is that correct? 23 A. Correct. 24 Q. And on 3-4-03, we have Gavin and Star up at 25 the top, staying overnight? 26 A. Yes. 27 Q. From overnight to overnight, there's no 28 check-out time; correct? 7150 1 A. Yes. Well, they were there overnight. 2 Q. Yeah. 3 A. At least one night. 4 Q. All right. In other words, it doesn't show 5 that they left. Usually you'd show carry-over for 6 "out," but it just didn't show that, so you don't 7 know. We'll look at the next day. 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. All right. The best way to do it. And look 10 at the next day and see if they're still there, 11 right? 12 A. That would be the best way. 13 Q. In any event, they're at 20 and 21. So 14 those are guest units, right? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And then we have Davellin, and she was 17 staying at that Extension 50, wherever that is, 18 right? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. That's somewhere other than the guest units 21 and it may be the theater? 22 A. I believe it's one of the rooms in -- 23 there's two bedrooms in the theater. 24 Q. All right. And the other bedroom in the 25 theater is 51, is it not? 26 A. I believe so. 27 Q. All right. So it shows that she was there 28 from overnight; is that right? 7151 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And then it shows that she went out at 2:25 3 in the afternoon, right? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And came back at 6:01 in the evening? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And it appears, if we do some detective work 8 there, down at the bottom, Chris Carter took the 9 gray van out and apparently was driving -- was the 10 driver of the van, and drove her out at 1425 and 11 back at 1801, the same times; is that correct? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And then Rio and Simone were also on the 14 ranch; is that correct? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. And it looks like they had been staying 17 overnight, right? 18 A. Right. 19 Q. And that they went out with Davellin driven 20 by Chris Carter at 1425 and came back at 1801, at 21 the same time; is that right? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And it looks like Rio was staying in the 24 same room as Gavin; is that correct? 25 A. Yes. 26 Q. All right. So that's 3-4, and now 27 they're -- we're going to go to -- we're going to go 28 to 191. 7152 1 Just for the record, Your Honor, it's not a 2 big thing, but it's just a thing. As I'm paging 3 through here, I'm seeing that these are a little bit 4 out of order. It goes from 188 to 193 to 191 in the 5 exhibit book. I don't know that there's any 6 significance, but I just -- 7 THE COURT: It's the same in my copy. 8 MR. SANGER: That's fine. 9 Q. So we go to 191, and that shows for 3-5, 10 March the 5th, 2003, correct? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And here we show, once again, Gavin in 20, 13 guest unit? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Star, guest unit? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Both there from overnight, and no indication 18 that they left; is that correct? 19 A. Correct. 20 Q. We have Davellin -- and I'll persist in 21 saying "Davellin," even though it's spelled 22 countless ways in these logs; is that all right? 23 A. That's fine. 24 Q. You knew eventually her name was Davellin, 25 is that correct? 26 A. Yes. 27 Q. So we have Davellin again at 50, which is 28 apparently in the theater; is that right? 7153 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And she stayed overnight, or she had been 3 staying overnight, and there's no indication she 4 checked out; is that right? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. And then you have Janet, who's staying in 7 one of the guest units; is that correct? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And again, she was staying from overnight 10 and there's no indication that she checked out, 11 correct? 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. And then you have Rio, who is apparently 14 staying in the same guest unit as Gavin; is that 15 correct? 16 A. Correct. 17 Q. And Rio was there from overnight, and on 18 this date, March the 5th, it appears that both Rio 19 and Simone left about 7:30 in the evening; is that 20 correct? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Okay. Let's go to 195. Showing MJ00195. 23 That's for 3-6-03; is that correct? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Here we show Janet Arvizo is now in Unit 4, 26 which is Extension 21, correct? 27 A. Correct. 28 Q. And she had been staying overnight? 7154 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And then we have Davellin, who's in Unit 3. 3 She had been staying overnight, correct? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And in fact, Gavin and Star are also shown 6 in Unit 3, staying overnight; is that correct? 7 A. Correct. 8 Q. I'll put up MJ00198, which is for March the 9 7th, so once again the next day. And let's take the 10 easy ones first. We have Gavin, Star and Davellin 11 Arvizo, they show they're in Unit 3, which is 12 Extension No. 20, right? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And that they were there overnight, and they 15 continued to remain overnight, correct? 16 A. Correct. 17 Q. Then you have Janet Arvizo, who was logged 18 in for Unit 4. It's crossed out. Do you have any 19 idea why it was crossed out? 20 A. No. 21 Q. And then there's a star and a star; is that 22 correct? 23 A. Correct. 24 Q. And what does the star tend to mean? 25 A. Generally it means there was no time given, 26 written in, no time given written out, so it wasn't 27 written out. The fact that it's crossed out can 28 mean that she wasn't there. I don't know. 7155 1 Q. It shows she was there the day before? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. All right. And then if we look here, we see 4 that Frank and Vinnie -- it says, "Vinnie Black." 5 That's the same Vinnie. There was one Frank and one 6 Vinnie throughout this, right? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. So Frank and Vinnie, if I may use the first 9 names, are staying in the video library, and they 10 were there at the beginning of the day, at midnight, 11 and they were there at midnight the next -- 12 A. Next day, yes. 13 Q. Next day, right? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Okay. Now we go to 2001. 2001, I'm sorry. 16 Too many numbers. Sorry. 00201, which is 3-8 of 17 '03, correct? 18 A. Correct. 19 Q. The next day. And on that day, the logs 20 show that we have Gavin, Star, and Davellin as well 21 as Frank and Vinnie all there the entire 24-hour 22 period? 23 A. Correct. 24 Q. So they didn't come; they didn't go. All 25 right. 26 Now we go to -- oops. Again, these seem to 27 be a little bit out of order. 204 comes before 203. 28 But in any event, I'm going to put 204 up, which is 7156 1 3-9-03. So that's the next day. 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And on this day we have Gavin, Star, 4 Davellin, all there the entire time, correct? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. And then you have Frank and Vinnie, who were 7 there from the night before, and they seem to leave 8 at about 3:43 in the afternoon, correct? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. And then they come back at -- the two of 11 them come back at the same time, at about 8:43 at 12 night, correct? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And then they stay overnight; is that right? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. We also on that day have other guests of 17 course, but we have Rio and Simone arriving at ten 18 minutes after noon, correct? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And then they stayed overnight? 21 A. Yes. 22 MR. SANGER: Now, may I approach the witness 23 with the book? 24 THE COURT: Yes. 25 MR. SANGER: Let me put that page back 26 first. 27 Let me just say it out loud if I'm going to 28 say it to the prosecutor. What I'm going to show 7157 1 the witness, keeping the pages in order and hoping 2 not to trip and drop them all over the place, we 3 have page 203 and then we have page 33697, and then 4 there's page 121, which is followed by page 33698, 5 and I want to ask the witness if that page, 121, 6 belongs in the sequence here. And that's what I 7 intended to approach him to do, if that's all right 8 with the Court. And that gives counsel an idea of 9 why I'm doing it. 10 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Sure. 11 THE COURT: All right. 12 MR. SANGER: Thank you. 13 Q. Okay. Now, I'm not supposed to talk up 14 here, but I just want to tell you this. Obviously 15 these pages, we're going to keep them in the same 16 order. It's just too hard to put them back in the 17 binder as we went along. 18 Here we have page 121 and I'm going to ask 19 you if that belongs in that particular position, and 20 I'm going to ask you to take a look towards the 21 beginning of the book. And I'll try to give you a 22 better indication, when I get back to my book, as to 23 where that page may have come from. 24 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Can I just interrupt? 25 (Off-the-record discussion held at counsel 26 table.) 27 MR. SANGER: I don't think this is the 28 biggest thing in the world, but if you look at 121 7158 1 that's in the book right there where you're looking 2 at it -- 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. -- does that appear to be in the correct 5 sequence? Forget about the numbers at the bottom. 6 A. Right. 7 Q. That will just confuse us for the moment. 8 A. This looks like one of the pages that we 9 looked at yesterday. 10 Q. In fact, if you look back to -- hesitant to 11 have you flip that because it might fall apart. 12 A. I'll do my best. 13 Q. If you look back at Exhibit 334, and now 14 look at the bottom -- 15 A. Any idea how far back that is? 16 Q. 334 is just -- 17 Okay. May I approach again? It might be -- 18 THE COURT: Yes. He's referring to an 19 exhibit number, not the page numbers now. 20 THE WITNESS: Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. 21 Q. BY MR. SANGER: No, no, it's not your fault. 22 Okay. There's Exhibit 334, and now -- if I may, 23 I'll just speak here briefly -- if we look at the 24 bottom, and you flip forward to 121, which is 25 MJ00121, does that look like that's the same page? 26 A. Yes. 27 Q. All right. And -- all right. May I have 28 the book back? 7159 1 Do you want to look at it, Counsel? 2 Okay. Thank you. 3 And -- okay. And this is just the way the 4 exhibit is, so we have to leave the exhibit the same 5 way here. I'm now going to put this copy of 121 up 6 on the board, just so we're all oriented. 7 There's no date on it; is that correct? 8 A. Correct. 9 Q. And you've gone back and you've seen -- this 10 is a second copy of a page we looked at yesterday; 11 is that right? 12 A. That's right. 13 Q. And that was really the page from February 14 the 8th of 2003 -- oops, let me make sure I said 15 that right. I'm sorry, February the 7th of 2003, 16 correct, when CBS Entertainment was at the ranch 17 with Ed Bradley and Jack Sussman, and so on? 18 A. I don't know from yesterday, but if that's 19 the date that it says on the paper, then that's the 20 day that it was from. 21 Q. I will represent that's in between the pages 22 for February the 7th in Exhibit 334. 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. All right? Okay. So that has nothing to do 25 with the current sequence then, in March. All 26 right? 27 A. Correct. 28 Q. Now, on -- on the -- 7160 1 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Counsel? 2 MR. SANGER: Yeah. 3 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Just for point of 4 reference -- it's between the 7th and the 9th. 5 So it's not keyed to the 7th. 6 MR. SANGER: Counsel is saying it's between 7 the 7th and the 9th. Suffice it to say it's in the 8 book in February and we can let the exhibit speak 9 for itself. It doesn't have a date on it. 10 Is that all right, Your Honor? 11 THE COURT: Yes. 12 MR. SANGER: All right. Thank you. 13 Q. Now, for this particular time period -- 14 THE COURT: For a minute I thought the clock 15 was going backwards. 16 (Laughter.) 17 THE COURT: Go ahead. 18 MR. SANGER: We'd like to start with 19 February 7th, if we could, please. 20 THE COURT: All right. 21 MR. SANGER: And do it all over again. 22 THE WITNESS: No, we wouldn't. 23 Q. BY MR. SANGER: No, we wouldn't. I think we 24 all agree with that. 25 We are almost through, which is always a 26 terrible thing to hear from a lawyer. But I think 27 it's true in this case. 28 All right. I'm going to show you now 7161 1 033698. We're back on Exhibit 335, okay? So we're 2 going to put this up. Now, I will represent to you, 3 and counsel can disagree if he wants, there does not 4 appear to be the regular guest information page 5 for -- 6 MR. SNEDDON: Can't see it. 7 MR. SANGER: I know. It will focus in a 8 moment. 9 Q. There does not appear to be the regular 10 guest information page on March the 10th in this set 11 where it lists who's staying at the ranch. 12 A. Okay. 13 Q. I'll just represent that. And this -- I'm 14 hoping while I'm talking it's going to focus. 15 There we go. Okay. But this appears to be 16 one of the other pages for March the 10th, 2003; is 17 that correct? 18 A. Yes. 19 THE COURT: Can we take a break here? 20 MR. SANGER: Fine. 21 (Recess taken.) 22 --o0o-- 23 24 25 26 27 28 7162 1 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE 2 3 4 THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE ) 5 OF CALIFORNIA, ) 6 Plaintiff, ) 7 -vs- ) No. 1133603 8 MICHAEL JOE JACKSON, ) 9 Defendant. ) 10 11 12 I, MICHELE MATTSON McNEIL, RPR, CRR, 13 CSR #3304, Official Court Reporter, do hereby 14 certify: 15 That the foregoing pages 7119 through 7162 16 contain a true and correct transcript of the 17 proceedings had in the within and above-entitled 18 matter as by me taken down in shorthand writing at 19 said proceedings on April 21, 2005, and thereafter 20 reduced to typewriting by computer-aided 21 transcription under my direction. 22 DATED: Santa Maria, California, 23 April 21, 2005. 24 25 26 27 MICHELE MATTSON McNEIL, RPR, CRR, CSR #3304 28 7163