1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 2 IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF SANTA BARBARA 3 SANTA MARIA BRANCH; COOK STREET DIVISION 4 DEPARTMENT SM-2 HON. RODNEY S. MELVILLE, JUDGE 5 6 7 THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF ) 8 CALIFORNIA, ) 9 Plaintiff, ) 10 -vs- ) No. 1133603 11 MICHAEL JOE JACKSON, ) 12 Defendant. ) 13 14 15 16 17 REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 18 19 FRIDAY, APRIL 15, 2005 20 21 8:30 A.M. 22 23 (PAGES 6375 THROUGH 6418) 24 25 26 27 REPORTED MICHELE MATTSON McNEIL, RPR, CRR, CSR #3304 28 BY: Official Court Reporter 6375 1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL: 2 3 For Plaintiff: THOMAS W. SNEDDON, JR., 4 District Attorney -and- 5 RONALD J. ZONEN, Sr. Deputy District Attorney 6 -and- GORDON AUCHINCLOSS, 7 Sr. Deputy District Attorney 1112 Santa Barbara Street 8 Santa Barbara, California 93101 9 10 11 For Defendant: COLLINS, MESEREAU, REDDOCK & YU BY: THOMAS A. MESEREAU, JR., ESQ. 12 -and- SUSAN C. YU, ESQ. 13 1875 Century Park East, Suite 700 Los Angeles, California 90067 14 -and- 15 SANGER & SWYSEN 16 BY: ROBERT M. SANGER, ESQ. 233 East Carrillo Street, Suite C 17 Santa Barbara, California 93101 18 -and- 19 OXMAN and JAROSCAK BY: R. BRIAN OXMAN, ESQ. 20 14126 East Rosecrans Boulevard Santa Fe Springs, California 90670 21 (Not Present) 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 6376 1 I N D E X 2 3 Note: Mr. Sneddon is listed as "SN" on index. 4 Mr. Zonen is listed as "Z" on index. Mr. Auchincloss is listed as "A" on index. 5 Mr. Mesereau is listed as "M" on index. Ms. Yu is listed as "Y" on index. 6 Mr. Sanger is listed as "SA" on index. Mr. Oxman is listed as "O" on index. 7 8 9 PLAINTIFF'S WITNESSES DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS 10 11 JACKSON, Janet 6379-Z 6399-M (Contd.) 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 6377 1 E X H I B I T S 2 3 FOR IN PLAINTIFF'S NO. DESCRIPTION I.D. EVID. 4 5 815 DVD 6383 6398 6 816 DVD 6388 6398 7 817 DVD 6393 6398 8 818 DVD 6396 6398 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 6378 1 Santa Maria, California 2 Friday, April 15, 2005 3 8:30 a.m. 4 5 THE COURT: Good morning, everyone. 6 THE JURY: (In unison) Good morning. 7 COUNSEL AT COUNSEL TABLE: (In unison) 8 Good morning. 9 THE COURT: Counsel, you may proceed. 10 MR. ZONEN: Thank you, Your Honor. 11 12 JANET JACKSON 13 Having been previously sworn, resumed the 14 stand and testified further as follows: 15 16 DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued) 17 BY MR. ZONEN: 18 Q. Miss Arvizo, good morning. 19 A. Good morning. 20 THE BAILIFF: Do you have your microphone 21 on? 22 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Miss Arvizo, good morning. 23 A. Good morning. 24 Q. Yesterday I asked a few questions about your 25 testimony with regards to your being followed at 26 times. Did you ever see people actually filming 27 you? 28 A. Yes. 6379 1 Q. Do you remember where and when you saw 2 people filming you? 3 A. At Jay's home. My children's school. At 4 church. Everywhere. 5 Q. And I had asked you if you recognized any of 6 those people. Did you recognize any of those 7 people? 8 A. Yes, I did. 9 Q. And could you tell us the names of any of 10 the people you saw? 11 A. One of them was Johnny, and I think one 12 other time was Asaf, and then there was one to three 13 people. And then after we left, permanently left 14 Neverland, that's the first time I ever saw a 15 female, in addition to a group of males. 16 Q. Prior to coming into court today, on a 17 couple of different occasions did you have an 18 opportunity to view videotapes of different persons 19 being filmed out on the street and at other 20 locations? 21 A. Yes, I did. 22 Q. Did you recognize the people who are the 23 subject of those films? 24 A. I sure did. 25 Q. And who were they? 26 A. My mom, my dad, my daughter. 27 Q. Davellin? 28 A. Davellin. My boys, Gavin and Star. And my 6380 1 now husband Jay Jackson. 2 MR. ZONEN: And, Your Honor, we're prepared 3 to play it at this time. 4 THE WITNESS: And myself. 5 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: You were among them? 6 A. Yes. 7 THE COURT: All right. 8 MR. ZONEN: We need a moment. Excuse me. 9 Just one moment. Your Honor, I'm sorry, we need to 10 reboot the computer. It's going to take a moment. 11 THE COURT: What's the exhibit number on 12 this? 13 MR. ZONEN: I'm going to withdraw the other 14 exhibit, the DVD, and we're going to do this as 15 three separate DVDs. 16 THE COURT: Actually, I don't think you can 17 withdraw it. There were objections made concerning 18 it. It will have to remain in evidence. 19 MR. ZONEN: That's fine. 20 THE COURT: Not in evidence, but it will 21 have to remain as an exhibit. Not in evidence. 22 MR. ZONEN: All right. Then we'll simply 23 give three new exhibit numbers to these three DVDs. 24 THE COURT: While that's being done, could I 25 ask counsel to, each of you, file a response to the 26 special master's report Monday so that I know what 27 your positions are on that? 28 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, Your Honor. 6381 1 THE COURT: And a response from the defense 2 to the supplemental motion that was served on me 3 today, probably due today. 4 MR. MESEREAU: I have not seen that, Your 5 Honor. 6 MR. SANGER: We received a motion this 7 morning. Is that what you're referring to? 8 THE COURT: Yes. 9 MR. SANGER: Is that what you're referring 10 to? 11 THE COURT: They can't hear you. 12 MR. SANGER: We received a motion this 13 morning, if that's what you're referring to. 14 THE COURT: Yes. You might respond to that 15 by Monday also. 16 MR. SANGER: Monday at 3:00. 17 THE COURT: At what? 18 MR. SANGER: At 3:00. Or Monday morning at 19 8:00? 20 THE COURT: Yes. That would be good. 21 MR. ZONEN: Your Honor -- 22 THE COURT: You ready? 23 MR. ZONEN: Almost. 24 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Some technical 25 difficulties. I think what we'll try to do, Your 26 Honor, is play it on the DVD player, so we'd ask you 27 to go to "Input 4." 28 BAILIFF CORTEZ: Sir, your microphone's off. 6382 1 MR. ZONEN: We also have the VCR here. We 2 can do it on that. Either way we'll be able to do 3 it this morning, if the computer doesn't work. 4 In the meantime, could I wrap up a little 5 bit of old business? Exhibits 809 and 810 that are 6 already in evidence are tapes in the form of a DVD 7 and a CD -- CV -- CD. And the Court was waiting for 8 transcripts from the People. We have those 9 transcripts and they are now numbered 809-A and 10 810-A, and a copy has been furnished to the defense. 11 I'll submit that to the Court at this time. 12 THE COURT: All right. And you're offering 13 809 at this time? 14 MR. ZONEN: 809 is not in evidence. We are 15 offering it into evidence. That's right. 16 THE COURT: All right. That's admitted. 17 And 814, did you mention that? 18 THE CLERK: 814 is the one that had writing 19 on the back. They were going to do it later. 20 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Can we go to "Input 1" -- 21 or "Input 4," Your Honor? 22 (Whereupon, a portion of a DVD, Plaintiff's 23 Exhibit No. 815, was played for the Court and jury.) 24 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Miss Arvizo, we've now -- 25 this frame is stalled at this spot here. Can you 26 tell us what we're looking at? 27 A. You're looking at my mom's house. 28 Q. This is in El Monte? 6383 1 A. This is in El Monte. 2 Q. All right. The building -- the front 3 portion of the building -- do you have the laser? 4 This front portion, is this portion your 5 parents' house, as well? 6 A. Yes, it is. 7 Q. What is it? 8 A. That's the garage area. 9 Q. That's a gate that's in front of the house 10 along here? 11 A. Yes. 12 MR. ZONEN: All right. Let's go ahead and 13 proceed. 14 Excuse me just one second before we start. 15 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: It just went dark. But I 16 can back it up. 17 MR. ZONEN: Let's start here. 18 Q. On February 14 of '03, do you know where you 19 were on that day? 20 A. I think -- to my best estimate, I think I 21 was already at my mom's house. I think that, to my 22 best estimate, is when Jesus had brought me back. 23 MR. ZONEN: Okay. Let's go ahead and 24 advance it. 25 THE WITNESS: And notice the time. 6:40 a.m. 26 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. 27 THE COURT: Sustained. No question pending. 28 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: All right. This is still 6384 1 your parents' house? 2 A. This is still my parents' home. 3 Q. And the last entrance on there was 10:35 4 a.m.? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. All right. 7 THE COURT: Just for the record, what number 8 is the exhibit you're showing now? 9 MR. ZONEN: 815, Your Honor. This is 815. 10 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Do you now recognize the 11 picture that you're looking at? 12 A. By the shape of the tree, the shape of the 13 top of the garage and the white area above the 14 garage door, that's my mother's home. This is after 15 my -- Jesus had brought us back. 16 Q. And the -- on this frame are the words and 17 numbers February 15, '03, 6:09 a.m. 18 Go ahead. 19 (Whereupon, a portion of a DVD, Exhibit 815, 20 was played for the Court and jury.) 21 MR. ZONEN: Go ahead and stop. 22 Q. This frame now reads February 15, '03, 1:04 23 p.m. Miss Arvizo, what are we looking at right now? 24 A. You're looking at my parents' home from a 25 different angle. And this is still my best estimate 26 from when Jesus helped me and my children come out 27 of Neverland. 28 Q. The building that we're looking at right 6385 1 now - and I'm pointing with the laser in front - is 2 that the garage? 3 A. Yes, it is. 4 Q. And your parents' residence over here to the 5 left? 6 A. Yes, that is the complete home. 7 Q. All right. And the entryway into the -- is 8 from the garage over here? 9 A. No. This way. 10 Q. Over this way? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. On this side, to the left is the garage? 13 A. Yes, it is. 14 (Whereupon, a portion of a DVD, Exhibit 815, 15 was played for the Court and jury.) 16 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Now, this says in the lower 17 right February 15, '03, 3:07 p.m. And what are we 18 looking at here? 19 A. You are still looking at my parents' home. 20 Q. There's the one right there. 21 A. Okay. 22 Q. Show us, please, where your parents' house 23 is. 24 A. This is -- right here is the door, my 25 parents' front door. Right here. 26 Q. The red car that we see in the driveway, is 27 that -- 28 A. That is the neighbor's car. 6386 1 Q. And your parents' garage, can you see it? 2 A. It's right here. Here's the white of the 3 top of the front of the garage. There's the garage 4 door. You walk around this way, and right there is 5 the front door. 6 MR. ZONEN: Okay. Go ahead. 7 (Whereupon, a portion of a DVD, Exhibit 815, 8 was played for the Court and jury.) 9 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Who is this person? 10 A. This is my father. 11 Q. And go ahead and point the laser so we can 12 see where he is. 13 A. And I think -- 14 MR. ZONEN: Advance it a little bit. 15 THE WITNESS: Right -- right there. 16 MR. ZONEN: Okay. Go ahead. 17 (Whereupon, a portion of a DVD, Exhibit 815, 18 was played for the Court and jury.) 19 MR. ZONEN: Stop right there. 20 Q. That person walking by, who is that? 21 A. This is my mother. 22 Q. And right now we're looking at the lower 23 right-hand corner of the frame, it says February 15, 24 '03, 3:51 p.m. 25 Go ahead. 26 (Whereupon, a portion of a DVD, Exhibit 815, 27 was played for the Court and jury.) 28 MR. ZONEN: Stop right there. 6387 1 Q. We're looking at a new frame that says 2 February 15, '03, 8:12 p.m. Do you recognize the 3 subject matter of what you're able to see? 4 A. Yes, I do. 5 Q. What is that, please? 6 A. This is now the underground parking of Jay's 7 apartment building. 8 Q. Is that the one on St. Andrews? 9 A. Yes, it is. 10 MR. ZONEN: Your Honor, we're going to 11 change tapes at this time. 12 The next tape, Your Honor, is 816. 13 THE COURT: 816? 14 MR. ZONEN: Yes. 15 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Can we go to "Input 4," 16 Your Honor? Or "Input" -- yes, "Input 4." 17 Thank you. 18 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Plaintiff's 19 Exhibit No. 816, was played for the Court and jury.) 20 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: This now says February 19, 21 '03, at 5:56 p.m. Whose car is that? 22 A. This is Jay Jackson's car, my husband. 23 Q. Can you tell who's driving? 24 A. This is my husband who's driving. 25 Q. And the location now? 26 A. This is the underground parking of Jay's 27 apartment on St. Andrews. 28 MR. ZONEN: Go ahead. 6388 1 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Plaintiff's 2 Exhibit No. 816, was played for the Court and jury.) 3 MR. ZONEN: Stop it. 4 Q. We're now looking at a frame that reads 5 February 19th, '03, at 6:01 p.m. Can you tell what 6 we're looking at here? 7 A. Yes, you're looking at my husband Jay 8 Jackson. 9 Q. Do you know where he is? Can you tell? 10 A. He is in an area called Larchmont. It's 11 in -- there's different -- it's kind of like a -- 12 different eating places. Different -- a marketplace 13 in Larchmont. Near where Jay Jackson used to live. 14 Q. It's in Los Angeles? 15 A. Yes, it is. 16 (Whereupon, a portion of a DVD, Exhibit 816, 17 was played for the Court and jury.) 18 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Let me stop at this moment 19 and ask you a question. 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. I believe that you had testified before that 22 it was at the end of the day of the 19th that you 23 went to Calabasas for the video; is that correct? 24 A. That is correct. 25 Q. Do you know where you were at approximately 26 six o'clock in the evening? 27 A. I was inside Jay's apartment. 28 MR. ZONEN: Go ahead. 6389 1 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Plaintiff's 2 Exhibit No. 816, was played for the Court and jury.) 3 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Are we still following your 4 husband? 5 A. Yes, you are still -- they're still 6 following my husband. 7 MR. ZONEN: Okay. 8 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Plaintiff's 9 Exhibit No. 816, was played for the Court and jury.) 10 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: The frame that we've stopped 11 is February 21, '03, 2:04 p.m. Tell us who we're 12 looking at here. 13 A. This is me and -- 14 Q. Hold on a second. 15 The question is simply, who are we looking 16 at? That's you; is that right? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. And do you have a recollection of having a 19 conversation with somebody in a Range Rover on that 20 day? 21 A. Yes, I do. 22 Q. With whom did you have a conversation? 23 A. I had a conversation with Miss Karen Walker. 24 Q. And Karen Walker you identified previously 25 as the social worker? 26 A. Yes. 27 Q. Do you remember the nature of that 28 conversation? 6390 1 A. Yes, I do. 2 Q. Now, was it your testimony previously that 3 Vinnie was somewhere in that area? 4 A. Yes. 5 MR. ZONEN: Go ahead and play. 6 (Whereupon, a portion of a DVD, Plaintiff's 7 Exhibit No. 816, was played for the Court and jury.) 8 MR. ZONEN: Stop. 9 Q. Miss Arvizo, who is that? 10 A. This is Vinnie. 11 Q. All right. We're now where it says February 12 21, '03, at 2:04 p.m. And the timeline on the lower 13 left of this frame reads 11:33:11. 14 (Whereupon, a portion of a DVD, Exhibit 816, 15 was played for the Court and jury.) 16 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Is that Vinnie? 17 A. This is Vinnie. 18 Q. And this reads 11:45:29 is the time segment 19 on the lower left-hand side, February 23 at 2:04 20 p.m. 21 Go ahead. 22 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Plaintiff's 23 Exhibit No. 816, was played for the Court and jury.) 24 MR. ZONEN: Stop just a second. 25 Q. We're now at February 21, '03, at 3:05 p.m. 26 It reads the time is 11:50:18. Can you tell us what 27 we're looking at right here? 28 A. Yes, I can. 6391 1 Q. What is this? 2 A. This is the vehicle that I was in with 3 Vinnie. I remember the -- that little light thing 4 going across. And I remember the seat being above 5 me. And that's Vinnie's hair on top of -- 6 Q. Go ahead and show us with the laser Vinnie's 7 hair. And then -- are you in the seat? 8 A. Right there. I'm in there. But the seat's 9 higher than me. 10 MR. ZONEN: Okay. Go ahead. 11 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Plaintiff's 12 Exhibit No. 816, was played for the Court and jury.) 13 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Santa Monica Boulevard is 14 what's now showing, the street sign; is that 15 correct? 16 A. That is correct. 17 Q. And do you remember being on Santa Monica 18 Boulevard? 19 A. Yes. 20 MR. ZONEN: Go ahead. 21 (Whereupon, a portion of a DVD, Plaintiff's 22 Exhibit No. 816, was played for the Court and jury.) 23 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Who is that? 24 A. This is me. And in the vehicle is Vinnie. 25 Q. Vinnie's driving and you're getting in? 26 A. Yes. 27 Q. And this is on the 21st of February, '03? 28 A. Yes. 6392 1 Q. And the time reads at 4:15 p.m. 2 Go ahead. 3 (Whereupon, a portion of a DVD, Plaintiff's 4 Exhibit No. 816, was played for the Court and jury.) 5 MR. ZONEN: Stop. 6 Q. Are you in that frame? 7 A. I'm right here. This is Vinnie right there. 8 This is Vinnie right there. And I'm right behind 9 this man. Right there. You can actually see us 10 walking up behind this couple. 11 Q. That couple have nothing to do with you? 12 A. This couple has nothing to do with me. 13 MR. ZONEN: All right. Go ahead. Or, hold 14 it. 15 Q. Do you know where you are at this point? 16 A. At this moment I don't know where we're at. 17 Q. Or on what street? 18 A. I don't remember. 19 MR. ZONEN: Okay. Go ahead. 20 (Whereupon, a portion of a DVD, Exhibit 816, 21 was played for the Court and jury.) 22 MR. ZONEN: Your Honor, the next tape we're 23 going to look at is 817. 24 THE COURT: All right. 25 (Whereupon, a portion of a DVD, Exhibit 817, 26 was played for the Court and jury.) 27 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: It reads March 17, '03, at 28 2:02 p.m. Can you tell us what we're looking at 6393 1 right now? 2 A. Yes, I can. 3 Q. And what are we looking at? 4 A. This is my daughter. And beyond that is my 5 parents' home. 6 Q. Show us where your daughter is in the 7 picture. 8 And the home? 9 Now, where would you and your family have 10 been on March 17, '03? 11 A. On March 17, '03, my boys, myself, are with 12 Jay. My daughter is with my parents. We have 13 permanently now left Neverland. 14 MR. ZONEN: Okay. 15 (Whereupon, a portion of a DVD, Plaintiff's 16 Exhibit No. 817, was played for the Court and jury.) 17 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: This is a close-up of your 18 daughter looking back; is that right? 19 A. That is correct. 20 Q. And show us the house where she's going to. 21 A. It's right here. Right here. 22 Q. Is 2:02 about the time that she'd be 23 arriving back at school? 24 A. Yes, it is. I enrolled my daughter and my 25 sons almost immediately into school. 26 Q. She's wearing a backpack. Is that the type 27 of backpack she traditionally took to school? 28 A. That is correct. 6394 1 MR. ZONEN: Go ahead. 2 (Whereupon, a portion of a DVD, Plaintiff's 3 Exhibit No. 817, was played for the Court and jury.) 4 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: And she's looking back a 5 second time; is that correct? 6 A. Yes, she is looking back and she looks 7 frightened. 8 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; move to strike her 9 comments. 10 THE COURT: Stricken. 11 (Whereupon, a portion of a DVD, Plaintiff's 12 Exhibit No. 817, was played for the Court and jury.) 13 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Is that the name of the 14 street that your parents' home is on? 15 A. This is the name of the street my parents 16 live on. 17 MR. ZONEN: We have a fourth tape as well. 18 Q. Miss Arvizo, did you have an opportunity to 19 take a look at a tape of the cleaning and moving of 20 materials from a residence? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Did you recognize the residence? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Whose residence was it? 25 A. It used to be my apartment. 26 Q. Is that the Soto Street address? 27 A. It is the Soto Street address. 28 Q. And the items that were being packed up, to 6395 1 the extent that there were still items left, did you 2 recognize those items? 3 A. Yes, I did recognize them. 4 Q. Whose items were those? 5 A. They're mine. 6 Q. Of any of the people who appear at any time 7 in that film, did you recognize any of them? 8 A. I did recognize someone to be, I think, 9 Asaf. 10 Q. Was he the one who is the photographer or 11 the videographer? 12 A. Asaf is the one who did the tape-recording 13 of the Department of Child Family Services. 14 Q. Hold on a second. 15 The question is, in the course of the -- 16 A. Oh. 17 Q. -- the film that you saw previously, you're 18 about to see -- 19 A. Oh, okay. 20 Q. -- is he the one holding the camera? 21 A. That is correct. 22 Q. At one moment he appears in a mirror, is 23 that correct? 24 A. Yes, he is. 25 MR. ZONEN: Let's go ahead and play this 26 one. 27 (Whereupon, a portion of a DVD, Plaintiff's 28 Exhibit No. 818, was played for the Court and jury.) 6396 1 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Which room is that? 2 A. This is our room that me and my children and 3 my ex-husband used to live in. 4 Q. And sleep? 5 A. And sleep in. 6 MR. ZONEN: Go ahead. 7 THE COURT: Is this 818? 8 MR. ZONEN: Yes, Your Honor. 9 (Whereupon, a portion of a DVD, Plaintiff's 10 Exhibit No. 818, was played for the Court and jury.) 11 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Is that the picture that you 12 saw before? 13 A. Yes, it is. 14 Q. And at some point, were you able to hear his 15 voice as well? 16 A. Yes. 17 MR. ZONEN: Let's resume. 18 (Whereupon, a portion of a DVD, Plaintiff's 19 Exhibit No. 818, was played for the Court and jury.) 20 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Was that Asaf's voice? 21 A. That is Asaf's voice. 22 Q. The deeper voice? 23 A. Yes, it is. 24 MR. ZONEN: All right. 25 (Whereupon, a portion of a DVD, Plaintiff's 26 Exhibit No. 818, was played for the Court and jury.) 27 MR. ZONEN: Your Honor, I have no further 28 questions. 6397 1 THE COURT: Cross-examine? 2 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, please, Your Honor. 3 THE COURT: That was Exhibit 118. 4 THE CLERK: 818. 5 THE COURT: 818. Are you offering that, 6 or -- 7 MR. ZONEN: I'm sorry, Your Honor? 8 THE COURT: Are those exhibits being 9 offered? 10 MR. ZONEN: Yes, they are, Your Honor. The 11 numbers are 815, 816, 817 and 818. 12 MR. MESEREAU: Thank you, Your Honor. 13 THE COURT: Are there any objections to those 14 exhibits? 15 MR. MESEREAU: No objection at all. 16 THE COURT: All right. They're admitted. 17 MR. MESEREAU: Your Honor, Mr. Sanger is 18 obtaining the tape of the phone conversation between 19 Miss Arvizo and Frank Cascio, and I'm going to begin 20 with that. 21 And also, the prosecutor lodged a transcript 22 with the Court this morning of that phone 23 conversation, which, with the Court's permission, 24 I'd like to hand to the witness as we play that 25 tape. 26 THE COURT: All right. 27 MR. MESEREAU: Thank you, Your Honor. 28 May I approach? 6398 1 THE COURT: Yes. 2 The tape should be 809. 3 4 CROSS-EXAMINATION 5 BY MR. MESEREAU: 6 Q. Good morning, Miss Arvizo. 7 A. Good morning. 8 Q. Miss Arvizo, as you know, my name is Tom 9 Mesereau and I speak for Michael Jackson. 10 Now, you heard the prosecutor for the 11 government play a recorded phone conversation 12 between you and Mr. Frank Cascio, correct? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And you didn't know that conversation was 15 being recorded, correct? 16 A. No. 17 Q. And to your knowledge, it was probably 18 recorded by Mr. Cascio, correct? 19 MR. ZONEN: Objection; speculative. 20 THE COURT: Sustained. Foundation. 21 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Before it was played in 22 court, when did you last hear that recorded phone 23 conversation between you and Mr. Cascio? 24 A. I think it was during the grand jury. I 25 think that's when it was. 26 Q. And you have in front of you a transcript of 27 that phone conversation, correct? 28 A. Yes. 6399 1 Q. Have you read any transcript of that phone 2 conversation before today? 3 A. I think so. 4 Q. And who provided you with a transcript to 5 read? 6 A. When I came -- the D.A.'s Office. 7 Q. At this point, Miss Arvizo, I'd like to play 8 that recorded conversation for the jury, and at 9 various points I'm going to ask my co-counsel, Mr. 10 Sanger, to stop the recording, and I'm going to ask 11 you questions about what Mr. Cascio says and about 12 what you say. Okay? 13 A. Okay. 14 MR. MESEREAU: With the Court's permission, 15 we'll play the phone conversation, Your Honor. 16 THE COURT: And this is Exhibit -- 17 MR. SANGER: 809, Your Honor. 18 THE COURT: Okay. 19 THE WITNESS: And this is more than one 20 conversation blended, put together. 21 MR. MESEREAU: I know your position. 22 THE WITNESS: Okay. 23 MR. MESEREAU: We'll go through it. 24 THE WITNESS: Okay. 25 THE BAILIFF: Are you on "Input 1," Your 26 Honor? 27 Can you check that switch and make sure it's 28 over, the audio switch? 6400 1 BAILIFF CORTEZ: I hear something. 2 THE BAILIFF: Is it where it was? 3 BAILIFF CORTEZ: No, it's just a little 4 bit -- 5 THE BAILIFF: It should work. 6 BAILIFF CORTEZ: I hear it. 7 MR. SANGER: Is it going through the 8 microphone? 9 MR. MESEREAU: Start it again. 10 THE BAILIFF: I can turn it up here. 11 MR. SANGER: This happened last time. We 12 were told there was a switch up there, but.... 13 One more try, Your Honor. I'm sorry. 14 THE BAILIFF: Did you plug it into the 15 defense? 16 MR. SANGER: It's plugged into the defense. 17 Plugged into the back. That's on. One, two, that's 18 on. We can play it again with the speakers. 19 THE COURT: I think that's the best thing to 20 do. 21 THE BAILIFF: They're coming right over. 22 MR. SANGER: Your Honor, I don't know if the 23 Court's willing to wait for just a moment. I hear 24 they're coming right away. 25 THE COURT: Would you like me to? 26 MR. SANGER: It would be a lot better to 27 hear it through the system, I think. 28 THE COURT: All right. We'll wait. 6401 1 MR. SANGER: Thank you. 2 THE BAILIFF: We check this every day. They 3 should be here any minute, Judge. 4 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: While we're waiting, Miss 5 Arvizo, let me ask you a few questions about what's 6 said in this conversation. 7 You're telling the jury under oath, that you 8 never wanted any kind of security provided to you by 9 Frank, correct? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And you never made any statements to Frank 12 that you needed any kind of protection, correct? 13 A. Uh-huh. That's correct. 14 Q. And when Frank offered you any type of 15 security at your home, you always declined; is that 16 correct? 17 A. That's correct. 18 Q. Because you never felt you needed any 19 security of any kind from him, right? 20 A. No, what I said was I didn't want my parents 21 to be scared. 22 Q. Are you telling the jury you didn't want any 23 security from Frank? 24 A. That's correct. 25 Q. And in no conversation with him did you ever 26 say anything to that effect, right? 27 A. That's how I feel. 28 Q. And did you ever tell Frank that your home 6402 1 was being, in effect, bombarded by media people? 2 A. This was after a conversation with him. 3 Q. Did you ever tell Frank your home was, in 4 effect, being bombarded by media people? 5 A. Yes, because I believed them after they had 6 told me, and, yes, I saw it for my own self in my 7 parents' home. 8 Q. So you saw media people bombarding your 9 home? 10 A. Yes. With all the mail that was left on the 11 table. 12 Q. And did you ever tell anything like that to 13 Frank? 14 A. Yes, I did. 15 Q. Okay. 16 THE COURT: Would you pause so they can try 17 to.... 18 (Discussion held off the record.) 19 MR. SANGER: May I try it just to -- 20 THE COURT: Yes. 21 MR. SANGER: Thank you very much. 22 MR. MESEREAU: I think we're all set, Your 23 Honor. Thank you. 24 THE COURT: All right. Go ahead. 25 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Miss Arvizo, do you recall 26 telling Frank with respect to the rebuttal interview 27 with you and your family that the Germans only want 28 you to talk about one charitable act of Michael, but 6403 1 you want to talk about more than that? 2 A. What is your question? 3 Q. Do you recall telling Frank that you didn't 4 like what the Germans were asking you to say on the 5 rebuttal video, because they only wanted you to talk 6 about one charitable act of Michael and you wanted 7 to talk about much more than that? 8 A. That's incorrect. 9 MR MESEREAU: Okay. Could we play the -- 10 THE WITNESS: There's more than that. 11 MR. MESEREAU: I understand. You'll have 12 your chance to talk about it. 13 MR. SANGER: Ready? 14 MR. MESEREAU: Yes. 15 THE WITNESS: Because they wanted me to do a 16 choreograph that me and Michael had done a charity 17 act to German orphans. And I wasn't going to do 18 that, to say that that had happened. 19 MR. MESEREAU: At this time we're going to 20 play the conversation, Your Honor. Thank you. 21 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Plaintiff's 22 Exhibit 809, was played for the Court and jury.) 23 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Now, you're telling Frank 24 that you love his family, correct? 25 A. Yes. 26 Q. You're telling Frank that, in effect, "We're 27 all family," right? 28 A. Yes. Because of Michael's initial 6404 1 lovey-dovey meeting. 2 Q. Just please answer my question, Miss Arvizo. 3 The prosecutor will then ask you whatever he wants. 4 I just want direct answers to my questions, all 5 right? Is that all right with you? 6 A. If you could simplify the questions, that 7 would be easier for me. 8 Q. I will try to make them as clear as I can. 9 And if you don't understand, don't answer me. Just 10 ask me to try and restate it. Okay? 11 A. Okay. That's fair enough. 12 Q. You told Frank Cascio in this conversation, 13 "We're all family," true? 14 A. I said, "It's like we're family." True. 15 Q. Did that mean in your mind that your family, 16 Frank's family, and Mr. Jackson's family were all 17 united? 18 A. Let me see. It says right here, "I love you 19 so much. You don't know how much I love your little 20 sister and your little brother." That's what it 21 said. 22 Q. And then later on, it says, "It's like we're 23 family, you know, Frank?" 24 A. Yeah. 25 Q. Okay. 26 A. "Like we're family." 27 Q. And when you said that you meant it, true? 28 A. Yes, I believed what he said in the initial 6405 1 meeting in Miami. 2 Q. I understand, it all comes from Miami, 3 correct? 4 A. Correct. 5 Q. Doesn't come from your being at Neverland 6 with the Cascio family, does it? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Were you ever at Neverland with the Cascio 9 family? 10 A. With the whole entire family? No. 11 Q. With the children? 12 A. With the children, no, never before at 13 Neverland, before Miami. 14 Q. So one trip to Miami and you're calling 15 everyone family, correct? 16 A. Correct. 17 MR. MESEREAU: Okay. Let's keep going. 18 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Plaintiff's 19 Exhibit No. 809, was played for the Court and jury.) 20 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Now, you say to Frank, 21 "It's like we're family, you know, Frank?" And he 22 says, "I know. And you say, "You know. And people 23 don't understand that," correct? 24 A. Correct. 25 Q. And when you said, "People don't understand 26 that," what did you mean? 27 A. Well, I thought they were honest people. 28 And, for example, people 50 and over have a tender 6406 1 spot in my heart, and so it's loving someone without 2 knowing them. That's what I mean. 3 Q. So what you're saying is in your mind you 4 were family with the Cascios because you loved them 5 without knowing them; is that correct? 6 A. Correct. 7 MR. MESEREAU: Okay. 8 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Plaintiff's 9 Exhibit No. 809, was played for the Court and jury.) 10 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Now, you say, "It's like 11 crazy here." Do you see that? 12 A. I said, it goes, "Um, (inaudible), bleep, 13 are like crazy here," so I really couldn't tell you 14 what was before there. 15 Q. Let's go two lines down. 16 A. Okay. 17 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Plaintiff's 18 Exhibit No. 809, was played for the Court and jury.) 19 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: You say to Frank, "Are 20 like crazy here," And he says, "Who?" 21 And you say, "The reporters and stuff." 22 Right? 23 A. Correct. 24 Q. And please tell the jury what you're talking 25 about. 26 A. Well, in my mom's table, when I arrived from 27 Neverland, from Jesus helping me, there was a table 28 filled with offers, many different offers requesting 6407 1 interviews, some people offering cars, to various 2 denominations, and just a variety of things. And 3 the phone ringing over and over and over. 4 Q. Okay. And people were coming to your house, 5 true? 6 A. And some -- some of the reporters just 7 wanted to talk. But it was all there. 8 Q. They were looking for you at times, correct? 9 A. Mostly my children. Mostly Gavin 10 specifically. 11 MR. MESEREAU: Okay. Let's keep going. 12 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Plaintiff's 13 Exhibit No. 809, was played for the Court and jury.) 14 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Now, you're talking to 15 Frank after you say Chris took you and, "Jesus 16 helped me leave," correct? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. So the things you're saying to Frank on this 19 tape -- 20 A. Has been manipulated. 21 Q. Oh, I understand your position, because 22 we'll go through that. 23 A. Okay. 24 Q. And what you're saying is you've had someone 25 look at this tape and decide it's all been jumbled 26 up together; right? Is that your position? 27 A. My position is I had the conversation. I 28 know when I left, the first time I left with Jesus, 6408 1 the second time I left with Chris, two different 2 events. 3 Q. Okay. 4 A. That's why I know. 5 Q. But what you say is, Ya know, ya know, 6 Frank, when I asked to leave on Sunday night," and 7 then Frank coughs, and then it's inaudible, and it 8 says, "And, ah, Chris took me and, ah, Jesus helped 9 me leave." Do you see that? 10 A. Yes, I do. 11 Q. And obviously this conversation is happening 12 after Jesus helps you leave? 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. And it's after Chris helped you, correct? 15 A. No. 16 Q. Why did you say then, "Chris took me and 17 then Jesus helped me leave"? 18 A. Because Chris -- this tape has been 19 manipulated. But also on that day -- Chris was the 20 one who took me to go do the leg wax. 21 Q. Okay. Now, Chris was part of Michael 22 Jackson's personal security group at Neverland, 23 true? 24 A. Correct. His personal bodyguard. 25 Q. Yes. He's the one who took you for a body 26 wax, correct? 27 A. Incorrect. 28 Q. Who took you for a body wax? 6409 1 A. No one ever. 2 Q. Well, you went for a body wax when you were 3 at Neverland, did you not? 4 A. Inaccurate. 5 Q. Never did it? 6 A. Never did it. 7 Q. Never went to a salon in Los Olivos and met 8 someone there who treated you, correct? 9 A. I had a leg wax done. 10 Q. In Los Olivos? 11 A. In Los Olivos. 12 Q. And that was the day you claim Jesus helped 13 you escape from Neverland, true? 14 A. That was the day that the Germans said that 15 they wanted to do positive PR for Michael. And I 16 figured this is what they have and that's it. I 17 could go now and it was still a no. 18 Q. The body wax you had in Los Olivos was the 19 day that you claim Jesus helped you escape from 20 Neverland, true? 21 A. His statement is inaccurate. He keeps 22 continuously saying "body wax." There is no body 23 wax. 24 Q. What did you have at the salon in Los Olivos 25 on the day you claim you escaped from Neverland? 26 A. A leg wax. 27 Q. Okay. Okay. And how did you get to the 28 salon to have the leg wax? 6410 1 A. I didn't get them to do anything. They had 2 already arranged it, the Germans, for their positive 3 PR for Michael. With the film crew following us. 4 Q. How did you get to the salon in Los Olivos 5 from Neverland to have your leg wax? 6 A. Chris took me. 7 Q. So when you say, "And, ah, Chris took me, 8 and, ah, Jesus helped me leave," you're talking 9 about Chris, who is part of Mr. Jackson's security 10 detail, taking you to Los Olivos to the salon, 11 right? 12 A. For Michael's positive PR. 13 Q. I understand what your position is, but I'm 14 asking you a direct question. 15 On the day you claim Jesus helped you escape 16 from Neverland, that's the same day Chris took you 17 to a salon in Los Olivos for a leg wax, correct? 18 A. Well, if he wants to get that technical, it 19 was the next day, because it was closer to 1 a.m. 20 Q. Well, how do you escape from Neverland with 21 Jesus and then have Chris take you for a leg wax? 22 A. Chris took me to have a leg wax in the 23 afternoon. After midnight, about 1 a.m., is when 24 Jesus helped me and my children leave. 25 Q. Okay. And to -- 26 A. The next day. 27 Q. -- to get back to my initial point, this 28 phone conversation is happening after you say Jesus 6411 1 helped you leave from Neverland, isn't it? 2 A. These multiple conversations are happening 3 after Jesus helped me leave. 4 MR. MESEREAU: Okay. All right. Let's keep 5 going. 6 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Plaintiff's 7 Exhibit No. 809, was played for the Court and jury.) 8 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Now, you're telling Frank 9 Cascio -- 10 A. Just a moment, Mr. Mesereau. Where are we? 11 I'm trying to -- 12 Q. We're on the third page. 13 A. Okay. 14 Q. Okay? There are no numbers on the lines, 15 but we're on the third page. If you look about 16 midway through -- 17 A. Okay. 18 Q. -- you will see your comment, "And, ah, 19 Chris took me, and ah, Jesus helped me leave." Do 20 you see that? 21 A. Okay. But we played the tape a little bit 22 further. 23 Q. Yes, we did. Yes, we did. And we've 24 stopped two quotes down. 25 A. Okay. 26 Q. We stopped where it says, "And that's how I 27 feel." Do you see that? 28 A. Oh, goodness gracious. 6412 1 Q. Do you see it? Do you want me to point it 2 out to you? 3 A. Please. 4 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor? 5 THE COURT: Yes. 6 THE WITNESS: Okay. Good. Thank you. 7 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: You're talking to Mr. 8 Cascio after Jesus helped you leave, and you're 9 telling him, "My family, so as far as me and the 10 kids, we are family, and that's how I feel." Do you 11 see that? 12 A. Yes, it says, "My family" -- 13 Q. Yes. 14 A. -- "(inaudible)," and then it says, "So as 15 far as me and the kids, we are family, inaudible, 16 and that's how I feel." 17 MR. MESEREAU: Okay. Let's keep going. 18 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Plaintiff's 19 Exhibit No. 809, was played for the Court and jury.) 20 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Now, Frank says to you, 21 "People out there are so evil." And you reply, 22 "Yes, yes, Frank, they are, they are." 23 He says to you, "They're so evil," and you 24 go, "Yes, I know, I know." 25 Right? 26 A. Correct. 27 MR. MESEREAU: Okay. Let's keep going. 28 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Plaintiff's 6413 1 Exhibit No. 809, was played for the Court and jury.) 2 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Now, you start to talk 3 about David, correct? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And you say, "They've been replaying over 6 and over the news over here and on the radio. The 7 father said making him so, so credible, you know, 8 even the father said. David -- he was -- there's 9 nine criminal charges for what he did to that kid, 10 you know. And for what he did to me. He doesn't 11 pay child support and, ah, he has a restraining 12 order to stay away from me and the kids." 13 Right? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. And you're talking about your former husband 16 David Arvizo, right? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. Okay. And you're talking about a criminal 19 case against him, right? 20 A. Correct. 21 Q. And that was a situation where the police 22 were notified, right? 23 A. Two different criminal cases that both he 24 pled guilty on 2001 and 2002. 25 Q. And one of them was an allegation that he 26 had molested Davellin, true? 27 A. Not an allegation. Information. 28 Q. Okay. But, I mean, he was -- you know, you 6414 1 reported him to the police on a couple of occasions, 2 true? 3 A. No. That was -- 4 He's incorrect. I was there. He was 5 arrested for domestic violence. In the process of 6 being investigated for that, that's when they found 7 out that there's more -- that this man had caused 8 more harm not just on me, but also my children, and 9 so that sparked an investigation on what he had done 10 to my kids. 11 Q. And you did report him for having falsely 12 imprisoned your family, true? 13 A. It was -- I give them the information and 14 they did whatever they did with it. 15 Q. And you did report him for having molested 16 Davellin, true? 17 A. They -- he's inaccurate. They asked a 18 history about David, and the event he's referring to 19 is something that happened way over ten years ago. 20 Q. Okay. In answer to my question, there was a 21 report made that David had molested your daughter 22 Davellin, true? 23 A. It was a one-sentence statement, and they 24 were asking for the history of David. 25 Q. Was a report made that your former husband 26 David had molested your daughter Davellin? Yes or 27 no. 28 A. That was in the midst of all the information 6415 1 that they were gathering about David, so, yes. 2 Q. Okay. Now, it mentions a restraining order, 3 correct? 4 A. On which particular restraining order are we 5 talking about? 6 Q. I'm going to ask you about that. 7 A. Okay. 8 Q. Did you get a number of restraining orders 9 against your former husband David? 10 A. Yes, that were issued through the Family 11 Court and the criminal courts. 12 Q. And how did you do that? 13 A. Well, when David was arrested for domestic 14 violence finally, the criminal courts issued 15 something that they do routinely, a restraining 16 order. 17 Q. And at some point he was reported for having 18 violated a restraining order, correct? 19 A. That is correct. 20 Q. And how did that happen? Please tell the 21 jury how the case against him for violating a 22 restraining order came about. 23 A. Well, my daughter came home, told me 24 what happened. So then I called -- I let them 25 know, the investigating officer, what had 26 happened. 27 THE COURT: Counsel? 28 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, Your Honor. 6416 1 THE COURT: Take our break. 2 (Recess taken.) 3 --o0o-- 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 6417 1 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE 2 3 4 THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE ) 5 OF CALIFORNIA, ) 6 Plaintiff, ) 7 -vs- ) No. 1133603 8 MICHAEL JOE JACKSON, ) 9 Defendant. ) 10 11 12 I, MICHELE MATTSON McNEIL, RPR, CRR, 13 CSR #3304, Official Court Reporter, do hereby 14 certify: 15 That the foregoing pages 6379 through 6417 16 contain a true and correct transcript of the 17 proceedings had in the within and above-entitled 18 matter as by me taken down in shorthand writing at 19 said proceedings on April 15, 2005, and thereafter 20 reduced to typewriting by computer-aided 21 transcription under my direction. 22 DATED: Santa Maria, California, 23 April 15, 2005. 24 25 26 27 MICHELE MATTSON McNEIL, RPR, CRR, CSR #3304 28 6418 1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 2 IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF SANTA BARBARA 3 SANTA MARIA BRANCH; COOK STREET DIVISION 4 DEPARTMENT SM-2 HON. RODNEY S. MELVILLE, JUDGE 5 6 7 THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF ) 8 CALIFORNIA, ) 9 Plaintiff, ) 10 -vs- ) No. 1133603 11 MICHAEL JOE JACKSON, ) 12 Defendant. ) 13 14 15 16 17 REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 18 19 FRIDAY, APRIL 15, 2005 20 21 8:30 A.M. 22 23 (PAGES 6419 THROUGH 6542) 24 25 26 27 REPORTED MICHELE MATTSON McNEIL, RPR, CRR, CSR #3304 28 BY: Official Court Reporter 6419 1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL: 2 3 For Plaintiff: THOMAS W. SNEDDON, JR., 4 District Attorney -and- 5 RONALD J. ZONEN, Sr. Deputy District Attorney 6 -and- GORDON AUCHINCLOSS, 7 Sr. Deputy District Attorney 1112 Santa Barbara Street 8 Santa Barbara, California 93101 9 10 11 For Defendant: COLLINS, MESEREAU, REDDOCK & YU BY: THOMAS A. MESEREAU, JR., ESQ. 12 -and- SUSAN C. YU, ESQ. 13 1875 Century Park East, Suite 700 Los Angeles, California 90067 14 -and- 15 SANGER & SWYSEN 16 BY: ROBERT M. SANGER, ESQ. 233 East Carrillo Street, Suite C 17 Santa Barbara, California 93101 18 -and- 19 OXMAN and JAROSCAK BY: R. BRIAN OXMAN, ESQ. 20 14126 East Rosecrans Boulevard Santa Fe Springs, California 90670 21 (NOT PRESENT) 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 6420 1 I N D E X 2 3 Note: Mr. Sneddon is listed as "SN" on index. 4 Mr. Zonen is listed as "Z" on index. Mr. Auchincloss is listed as "A" on index. 5 Mr. Mesereau is listed as "M" on index. Ms. Yu is listed as "Y" on index. 6 Mr. Sanger is listed as "SA" on index. Mr. Oxman is listed as "O" on index. 7 8 9 PLAINTIFF'S WITNESSES DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS 10 11 JACKSON, Janet 6423-M 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 6421 1 E X H I B I T S 2 3 FOR IN DEFENDANT'S NO. DESCRIPTION I.D. EVID. 4 5 5007 Document prepared by the Sheriff's Department and 6 signed by Janet Arvizo December 18, 2003 6504 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 6422 1 THE COURT: Counsel? 2 MR. MESEREAU: Thank you, Your Honor. 3 Q. Miss Arvizo, we were talking about the 4 domestic problems you had with David, okay? And you 5 said that you had obtained two restraining orders 6 against him at various times, right? 7 A. I didn't obtain them. It was through the 8 court system that they were issued. 9 Q. One for the criminal court system, correct? 10 A. Which I think, as best I can remember, is 11 that they routinely issue them. 12 Q. And one through the Family Court system; is 13 that correct? 14 A. Correct. That my family attorney requested. 15 Q. And who was your family attorney at that 16 point? 17 A. Mr. Michael Manning. 18 Q. Okay. And when the issue came up about 19 David Arvizo violating a restraining order, you went 20 to court, true? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Did you ever appear in court for any hearing 23 involving allegations that David had violated a 24 restraining order by talking to Davellin? 25 A. I think that was in the course of the -- 26 they didn't have a, what you're trying to say, that 27 there was a separate issue. It wasn't a separate 28 issue. It was -- as best as I can recall, it was 6423 1 within the midst of the domestic violence that he 2 was arrested that he did upon me. 3 Q. And the violation of the restraining order 4 that was alleged against him had to do with his 5 showing up at school and talking to Davellin, true? 6 A. It had to do with the fact that he violated 7 the restraining order. 8 Q. The violation of the restraining order had 9 to do with David showing up at school and talking to 10 Davellin, right? 11 MR. ZONEN: Your Honor, I'll object; lack of 12 foundation. 13 THE COURT: Overruled. 14 You may answer. 15 THE WITNESS: David, a grown man, was given a 16 restraining order, and he violated it. 17 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Let me repeat the question 18 again. If it's not clear, tell me. 19 A. It's not clear. 20 Q. Okay. What was the nature of the violation? 21 A. What do you mean? 22 Q. Didn't David go to Davellin's school -- 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. -- see Davellin outside of school and ask 25 her to go into his car and talk to him? 26 A. He called -- my understanding, because I 27 wasn't there -- the best who could explain it would 28 be Davellin. 6424 1 Q. You don't know what happened? 2 A. I do know, but the best one who could 3 explain it would be Davellin. 4 Q. What do you know about it, Miss Arvizo? 5 A. Okay, my understanding is that David had 6 called her over into the car, and he wouldn't let 7 her go until he finished his conversation with her 8 and until he was satisfied. Then he let her go. 9 That's my understanding. But the best one who could 10 explain it is Davellin. 11 Q. You attended court with Davellin when there 12 was a hearing with a judge on whether or not David 13 had violated that restraining order, right? 14 A. Again, that was in the midst of the domestic 15 violence that he had done upon me. 16 Q. Did you attend court when there was a 17 hearing on whether or not David had violated the 18 restraining order? 19 A. I think I understand what you're trying to 20 say, but if not, please make me aware. 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. I feel that he is trying to say that I was 23 present when these proceedings were happening in the 24 midst of the domestic violence. That is inaccurate. 25 She went behind a closed door with a judge, 26 a court reporter, and a -- David, Mr. Halpern, his 27 attorney. And that's where they had the hearing, 28 some kind of hearing, understanding, talking. I 6425 1 don't know what that process would be called. 2 Because he had violated the restraining order. 3 Q. And you were in court that day, right? 4 A. They did it behind closed doors, in the 5 judge's chambers, and I was not allowed to be 6 present. 7 Q. You were in court that day, true? 8 A. I was in the courthouse, in the courtroom. 9 But in the judge's chambers when that took place, 10 I was not present. And there was a court reporter 11 reporting everything there. 12 Q. And who was with you in court that day? 13 A. On that day was just -- it was me and 14 Davellin, I think. 15 Q. Was Carol Lamir ever in court with you? 16 A. With me? No. She's my ex-husband's, David 17 Arvizo's, best buddy. 18 Q. Was she ever in court with you for any 19 proceeding involving domestic violence? 20 A. With me, never. But with David. David. 21 That's his girlfriend. 22 Q. Okay. Now, you've told the jury about your 23 experience in obtaining restraining orders involving 24 David, right? 25 A. I don't understand what you're trying to 26 say. 27 Q. You've just told the jury about your history 28 of getting restraining orders against David, right? 6426 1 A. Not history, not experience, but what 2 happened after he committed these crimes. 3 Q. You never went to any court at any time and 4 tried to get a restraining order against Mr. Jackson 5 or anyone you thought was associated with him, 6 right? 7 A. I was hoping it will just go all away. And 8 Mr. Dickerman handled everything. 9 Q. You thought you were being falsely 10 imprisoned, right? 11 A. Correct. 12 Q. You thought -- 13 A. I didn't think it. I knew it. 14 Q. You thought you were being extorted, true? 15 A. What do you mean? 16 Q. Did you think you were the victim of 17 extortion by Mr. Jackson or any people associated 18 with him? 19 A. Please be more clear. 20 Q. Do you know what "extortion" means? 21 A. No, I don't. 22 Q. Okay. Did you think you were being 23 restrained against your will by either Mr. Jackson 24 or anyone you thought was associated with him? 25 A. Yes. 26 Q. Did you think you were being -- 27 A. I didn't think it. I knew it. 28 Q. Did you think you were being kidnapped by 6427 1 Mr. Jackson or anyone associated with him? 2 MR. ZONEN: Calls for a legal conclusion. 3 Objection. 4 THE COURT: Sustained. 5 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Did you think you were 6 being held against your will by Mr. Jackson or 7 anyone associated with him? 8 A. Did I think it? 9 Q. Yes. 10 A. I knew it. 11 Q. And did you think you were the victim of 12 either force or fear created by anyone associated 13 with Mr. Jackson? 14 A. I knew it. 15 Q. Yet, you never went into court to get any 16 restraining order at any time regarding Mr. Jackson, 17 true? 18 A. I was too scared of him. 19 Q. Okay. And at the time you claim you were 20 being held against your will, you had a number of 21 lawyers who had represented you at that point, true? 22 A. I don't understand what you're saying. 23 Q. Well, you had a lawyer who, you just told 24 the jury, had represented you in your domestic 25 dispute with David, correct? 26 A. Correct. 27 Q. At some point you visited Mr. Dickerman with 28 Jamie Masada, correct? 6428 1 A. Uh-huh. 2 Q. You had a number of meetings with Mr. 3 Dickerman and Jamie Masada, correct? 4 A. Correct. 5 Q. At some point, Mr. Dickerman referred you to 6 an attorney named Larry Feldman, correct? 7 A. This is after the fact. 8 Q. Is that true? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. Never have you ever sought a restraining 11 order against Mr. Jackson or anyone associated with 12 him, right? 13 A. That's correct. 14 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Plaintiff's 15 Exhibit 809, was played for the Court and jury.) 16 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Okay. Frank Cascio says 17 to you, "Do you know everything that David is saying 18 is completely false." Do you see this? 19 A. Yes, I do. 20 Q. And you say, "Oh, I know, I know. That's 21 why I'm getting" -- excuse me, "That's why I'm -- 22 I'm getting all those information. Oh, for example, 23 ah, there was like year and a half ago, a year and a 24 half ago, they did an investigation of me and David. 25 We understand that -- that Michael Jackson, and 26 Chris Tucker are involved with you and the kids, and 27 they said -- and the kids spoke up and they said, 28 'They're family to us. If we didn't have Michael, 6429 1 if we didn't have Michael, we wouldn't have a 2 father, a father figure in our life.'" And then the 3 social worker, (inaudible)," it says, "(possible 4 keys typing), okay, I'll give the person here a call 5 named David Arvizo. And she documented it and 6 everything and so I'm returning the note paper so 7 you can have all these papers." 8 Do you see that quote? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. All right. You're referring to an 11 investigation of you and David, correct? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. What investigation are you talking about? 14 A. Okay. Remember how I told you about the 15 Child Protective Services, that there was different 16 people, not this group, the one that was in a 17 different building, which was a female. This is 18 how -- my children's state of mind at that point, 19 because Michael had been kind to them in the initial 20 meeting when we first met in August. That stood 21 with them. Yeah. 22 Q. Well, okay. So you met Michael Jackson in 23 August of what year? 24 A. Of 2000. And also Evvy, his personal 25 assistant, made sure that we -- that the children 26 felt and saw everything as a family environment and 27 to see him as a father figure. This is Evvy 28 Tavasci, his personal assistant. 6430 1 Q. When you were involved in the investigation 2 you just described -- 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. -- how many times had you seen Michael 5 Jackson? 6 A. Me personally by this time, once. 7 Q. You had seen Michael Jackson one time, and 8 when you're being investigated by the Department of 9 Children & Family Services, you tell them that 10 Michael is like a father to your kids and your 11 family, true? 12 A. No. Inaccurate. It says, "And the kids 13 spoke up and they said 'They're family to us.'" The 14 children continue speaking and say, "If we didn't 15 have Michael -- if we didn't have Michael, we 16 wouldn't have a father." 17 My kids said that. 18 Q. "A father figure in our life," correct? 19 A. Yes, that's the children. 20 Q. Were you there when the kids said that to 21 the representatives of the Department of Children & 22 Family Services who were investigating you? 23 A. That's correct. 24 Q. One meeting with Michael and -- 25 A. Not me. 26 Q. -- and you're calling him "family" and "a 27 father figure," right? 28 A. Yes, per Evvy Tavasci's, his personal 6431 1 assistant, request. And also Michael had also 2 pointed that out to the children in August of 2000. 3 Q. I'm asking about you. 4 A. Okay, me? 5 Q. You're being investigated by DCFS, true? 6 A. Yes. Me and David. Because when David was 7 arrested for domestic violence -- remember how I 8 told you that this particular social worker, I was 9 very impressed, because she didn't care about me. 10 All she was interested was in my children. 11 And that's what I thought and was hoping 12 that these three, who were only solely concerned 13 about being sued by Michael Jackson, would have had 14 that same position. Then all this wouldn't have 15 happened. 16 Q. Miss Arvizo, we're talking about a DCFS 17 investigation, by your own words, that was a year 18 and a half before you're quoted in the conversation, 19 correct? 20 A. This is correct. 21 Q. That has nothing to do with what you just 22 told the jury. 23 A. This has everything to do with it. This 24 is -- this, 2003. The DCFS was about -- about 2001. 25 So I'm giving a best estimate on this conversation. 26 Q. You've met Michael one time and you're using 27 him to defend yourself in the investigation? 28 A. No. Incorrect. Inaccurate. We had -- in 6432 1 my apartment, we had a series of different pictures. 2 And the social worker had pointed out, because the 3 pictures that they had taken out of my apartment 4 when they did that little move, they were there 5 displayed amongst many celebrities, many people. 6 People that even donated blood were up there. 7 Q. Now, you told the jury when the prosecutor 8 for the government was asking you questions that 9 you'd always had good relationships with the 10 Department of Children & Family Services, correct? 11 A. Who's "the government"? 12 Q. These guys. 13 A. Okay. 14 Q. Okay? 15 Do you remember telling the jury that you 16 had always had good relations with the Department of 17 Children & Family Services? 18 A. That's correct. Prior to this CPS meeting 19 which they were not concerned with my children, they 20 were just concerned about being sued by Michael 21 Jackson, it was a positive experience. Like I said, 22 they cared solely about my kids. 23 Q. And was it a positive experience with the 24 Department of Children & Family Services when you 25 were investigated a year and a half before this 26 conversation with Frank Cascio? 27 A. That's what I'm talking about. In the year 28 2000, when David was arrested, they initiated a 6433 1 Child Family Services -- I don't know, one of 2 those -- it's the same people, I feel, had came out 3 to make sure that I was a good mom and make sure 4 that the children were in a safe environment. 5 Q. And you used the name "Michael Jackson" and 6 the name "Chris Tucker" in that investigation? 7 A. That's incorrect. 8 Q. So, are you not telling the truth when you 9 say that to Frank? 10 A. No, no, you said if I used them. That's 11 inaccurate. Like I said, there was pictures on my 12 walls of different people that had been kind to my 13 children. Amongst them was Michael, Chris, 14 celebrities, other people, and people that had 15 donated blood. And it was her question that she 16 asked that sparked my children to answer that. At 17 that moment was a time that -- that was their 18 mindset. 19 Q. You were investigated by the Department of 20 Children & Family Services in the 1990s when Gavin 21 alleged you had abused him. Remember that? 22 A. Yes, I do. 23 Q. Okay. Did you have a good relationship with 24 the Department of Children & Family Services at that 25 time? 26 A. Yes, I did. 27 Q. Okay. He accused you of abusing him and 28 then he changed his mind, right? 6434 1 A. No, that's inaccurate. 2 Q. Why don't you tell the jury what happened in 3 the investigation in the 1990s. 4 A. I feel -- if I'm correct, I feel that what 5 he's talking about, it was a time when Gavin was I 6 think in kindergarten. I think it was kindergarten. 7 I'm not sure. And the nurse, or something like 8 that, had said to Gavin -- and this is the best I 9 can recall it, had said -- about Gavin going home. 10 And then Gavin says, "No, I don't want to go home," 11 because he didn't want to go home from school. 12 And so he had told them that -- that if he 13 went home, he would get in trouble or something like 14 that. I don't remember very clear. 15 And so the Department of Child Family 16 Services came out, verified that my son was in a 17 safe environment, and that was it. It was another 18 positive experience. 19 Q. He had accused you of abusing him and then 20 changed his story, didn't he? 21 A. No, it's inaccurate what you're saying. 22 Q. You just said that to the jury, that he 23 accused you of abuse, right? 24 A. And it's okay. He was a kindergartner. He 25 was a kindergartner. And the way -- the nurse or 26 teacher, whoever it was - this is the best I can 27 recall - had communicated it that way to the 28 Department of Child Family Services. And that was 6435 1 it. This -- it's okay. 2 MR. MESEREAU: Okay. Let's keep going. 3 Thanks. 4 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Plaintiff's 5 Exhibit 809, was played for the Court and jury.) 6 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Okay. Frank says to you, 7 "Janet, can you do me a favor? You see what's going 8 with everything, and it seems like you're, like, 9 hiding from everybody, right?" And you go, "Yes." 10 See that? 11 A. Yes, I do. 12 Q. Who were you hiding from? 13 A. Well, from the people that they said that 14 were out to kill my children. 15 Q. You were also hiding from the media, weren't 16 you? 17 A. No, the media -- I was -- I was a little bit 18 unclear, because Michael had said that they're all 19 bad people. 20 Q. You had said they were bad people. 21 A. Well, because Michael in the initial meeting 22 in Miami had said that, and so did the Germans. 23 Q. I see. Okay. 24 A. So I believed them. I -- you know, I'm 25 incompetent. I don't know -- I don't have 26 experience with this, so I believed him. 27 Q. I'm sorry. Do you remember making repeated 28 statements that the media were harassing your 6436 1 family, your parents, your children, and you? 2 A. I don't see anywhere I say here "harassing." 3 Q. Did you ever say that to anyone at any time, 4 Ms. Arvizo? 5 A. In this conversation I don't think I said, 6 and prior to this I never did. This is per these 7 conversations, and this is multiple conversations. 8 Q. I understand your position. I'm asking you 9 a general question. 10 Did you at any time, while these events were 11 occurring, ever say to anybody, "The media is 12 harassing my family, my children, my parents, and 13 me"? Yes or no. 14 A. Well, like you said, it's general, so I'm 15 going to generally answer. Prior to these 16 conversations, which are multiple conversations, no. 17 Q. I understand your position. 18 A. It's no. 19 Q. So you never said -- you never complained to 20 anyone about the media harassing you at any time, 21 other than in this conversation. 22 A. You know -- 23 Q. Is that true? 24 A. No. That's correct. 25 Q. Okay. This was the first and only time you 26 ever complained about the media harassing you and 27 your family? 28 A. And that was because, in the initial meeting 6437 1 in Miami, Michael had pointed out that the media 2 were bad people, which I come to find out different 3 now, and that the Germans had said they're bad 4 people. I believed them. 5 When I got to my mom's and I saw all those 6 offers and the constant phone calls, then it just 7 confirmed in my mind to what they had told me. And 8 that's it. They're just doing their job. And 9 that's okay. 10 Q. Then why did you tell Frank they were 11 harassing you at your home? 12 A. I didn't say they were harassing me. 13 Q. Never said anything like that in this 14 conversation, true? 15 A. No, I didn't say "harassing." 16 Q. Okay. All right. 17 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Defendant's 18 Exhibit No. 809, was played for the Court and jury.) 19 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Now, you tell Frank about 20 the offers you received, right? 21 A. Uh-huh. 22 Q. And you, in effect, tell him you're not 23 going to accept any of them, right? 24 A. Correct. 25 Q. And then you say -- 26 A. Because that's not in my nature. 27 Q. I understand that. We'll get to the J.C. 28 Penney case and a few other things. 6438 1 MR. ZONEN: Objection; move to strike. 2 THE COURT: Stricken. 3 MR. ZONEN: It's a gratuitous comment. 4 MR. MESEREAU: Withdrawn. 5 Q. You say here, "I know we're family, Frank. 6 Me, you, me, my kids are family. You, Marie Nicole, 7 my kids, Baby Rubba are family. Michael, Marie 8 Nicole (inaudible), (Frank coughs). You, me, are 9 family and my parents. That's all I got. So that's 10 why when these German people...," and then it's 11 inaudible. Do you see that? 12 A. That's correct. 13 Q. Now, this conversation is taking place after 14 you say you escaped from Neverland with Jesus, true? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. You're still calling Michael your family, 17 correct? 18 A. That's correct, yes. 19 Q. You didn't escape from Neverland at all, did 20 you? 21 A. Oh, yes, I did. 22 Q. And how many times did you go back after 23 your first escape? 24 A. Be more specific, please. 25 Q. How many times did you return to Neverland 26 after your first escape? 27 A. After I was convinced by Frank, believing 28 that they were good people, I went back probably -- 6439 1 well, they've broken it down for you guys in a 2 period of two days. So, let me see. 3 I went back with -- with Chris immediately. 4 Came back that same day. And then when Vinnie took 5 me back, and that's it. I think. I'm trying to be 6 summarizing those two days' worth of information. 7 Q. Well, it's a total of approximately three 8 escapes, isn't it? 9 A. Are you including the one where I 10 permanently left and never went back? 11 Q. Yes, and maybe it's four escapes. How many 12 times do you escape from Neverland? 13 A. I'm asking you. I'm asking you. Please. 14 Q. I'm asking you how many times, in your mind, 15 you escaped from that dungeon Neverland? 16 MR. ZONEN: I'm going to object as 17 argumentative. 18 THE COURT: Sustained. 19 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: How many times did you 20 escape from Neverland, Miss Arvizo? 21 MR. ZONEN: Objection; asked and answered. 22 THE COURT: Overruled. 23 You may answer. 24 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 25 With Jesus. With Chris. And then the last 26 time. And that's the best I can remember. 27 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: And during the period of 28 these escapes, you're constantly referring to 6440 1 Michael as family to you, right? 2 A. Prior? 3 MR. ZONEN: Objection; vague as to "during 4 the period of." 5 MR. MESEREAU: I'll rephrase it, Your Honor. 6 THE COURT: All right. 7 MR. MESEREAU: I'll withdraw it. 8 Q. Between the first and the last escape from 9 Neverland, you were still referring to Michael as 10 your family, right? 11 A. Prior to Jesus taking me, my kids and me, 12 back to El Monte to my parents' house, I thought he 13 was still a good guy. I was confused and I was sad 14 at that moment because I did not know the events or 15 what's happened. Now I know a lot. But in that 16 period I only thought it was the Germans. That's 17 it. 18 Now, after, when Chris brought me back, I 19 knew now things are problematic, things that are 20 arising, so I'm still clueless. But as time 21 evolves, I'm finding out more and more things. Now 22 today, I know different. 23 Q. Ms. Arvizo, getting back to the leg wax that 24 you had on February 11th, 2003, the day of your 25 escape, you had a full leg treatment, a brow 26 treatment, a lip treatment, a face treatment and a 27 bikini wax; is that correct? 28 A. That's incorrect. 6441 1 Q. Would it refresh your recollection to look 2 at the receipt? 3 A. It wouldn't refresh my recollection because 4 I know my recollection. It's solely a leg wax. If 5 they've manipulated it, that's what they have done. 6 Q. The total cost was $140, correct? 7 A. Like I say, it was only a leg wax. 8 Q. Would it refresh your recollection to just 9 look at the copy of the receipt? 10 A. I'm telling you, it was only a leg wax. He 11 has the ability to choreograph everything. 12 Q. How about you, Ms. Arvizo? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Okay. You don't want to even look at the 15 receipt? 16 A. No, because I'm telling you, it was only a 17 leg wax. 18 Q. And who paid for that? 19 A. I paid for it. The reason is, they deducted 20 it from the items they lost or stolen that were 21 taken from me from the Miami trip. 22 Q. Who paid for your treatment at the salon? 23 A. I did, because that was their effort in 24 replacing the items that were lost and stolen from 25 the bags that I had in Miami. 26 Q. Did you pay the person at the salon your own 27 money? 28 A. Like I said, the condition here was that 6442 1 they were deducting it from the items that they had 2 lost or stolen from me. 3 Q. Did you pay the person at the salon any 4 money? 5 A. I just answered that. 6 Q. Did you take money of your own and give it 7 to anyone at the salon on that day, Miss Arvizo? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Who did? 10 A. I don't know. I don't know. That was taken 11 care of by the Germans in the process of doing their 12 positive PR, which there was a film crew. It would 13 be good to show that. 14 Q. We'll talk about that. Okay. 15 (Whereupon, a portion of a DVD, Plaintiff's 16 Exhibit 809, was played for the Court and jury.) 17 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Now, Frank asks you to be 18 interviewed for a documentary about Michael Jackson, 19 correct? 20 A. Correct. 21 Q. This is after your escape with Jesus, 22 correct? 23 A. Yes, it is. 24 Q. And he tells you he'd like to do a 25 documentary and would like you to say "nice 26 things" - actually, he used the word "beautiful" - 27 "about Michael," right? 28 A. This is correct. 6443 1 Q. And you say, "Oh, I would. That's all I 2 have to say." Frank says, "You" -- and then you 3 say, "Me and the kids, that's all we have to say." 4 Correct? 5 A. This is correct. In this period, I only 6 thought it was the Germans that were problems. 7 Q. Are you still telling the jury that 8 everything you said nice about Michael on the 9 rebuttal tape was from a script? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And if it hadn't been for that script, you 12 wouldn't have said beautiful things about Michael, 13 right? 14 A. Could you say that again? 15 Q. Are you telling the jury that when you did 16 the rebuttal video, you and the kids, and you said 17 nice things about Michael Jackson, you were doing it 18 all from a script? Yes or no, Miss Arvizo. 19 A. Well, you lost me now. 20 Q. I will rephrase it. 21 A. Okay. 22 Q. In this conversation that you didn't know 23 was recorded -- 24 A. Correct. 25 Q. -- Frank's asking you -- 26 A. That was illegally recorded. 27 Q. Thank you. 28 In this conversation where you are 6444 1 recorded -- 2 A. Illegally. 3 Q. I understand your position. 4 A. Okay. 5 Q. -- you tell Frank that all you and your 6 family had to say in a documentary are beautiful 7 things about Michael Jackson, true? 8 A. Yes. That is correct. 9 Q. Yet, you've also told the jury that when you 10 did the documentary, all the good things you said 11 about Mr. Jackson were scripted, correct? 12 A. In the document -- in the thing, the 13 rebuttal that they did, the whole entire thing -- 14 I know I have a problem speaking. I'm trying to do 15 my best. 16 The whole thing, from the beginning to the 17 end, including outtakes, it was all scripted 18 material. All of it. You didn't have to do that at 19 this point. I would have done it on my own. 20 But -- prior to that, because I thought it was only 21 the Germans. 22 But from the period that they did this, now 23 this is scripted, now things have elevated. But in 24 this, at this moment in time, yes, I would have. 25 But now? Have another rebuttal, and I'll 26 speak freely. Have another audiotape with Brad 27 Miller. I'll speak freely now. 28 Q. I understand. But at this point in time 6445 1 after your first escape, you had nothing but nice 2 things to say about Michael Jackson? 3 A. That is correct. I only thought it was the 4 Germans. 5 Q. And you were ready to do a documentary about 6 Michael Jackson where all you had were beautiful 7 things to say, correct? 8 A. And only if the things wouldn't have been 9 dictated of exactly what to say. Only if. That's 10 the only problem I had; that they want -- they 11 wanted me to say things that were scripted, exactly 12 what they wanted to say. Because I -- I felt what's 13 wrong with telling the truth? And at that moment, 14 that was the truth. 15 Q. And everything you said -- 16 A. And now I know different. It was happening 17 right underneath my nose. 18 Q. Miss Arvizo, everything you said on that 19 rebuttal tape was scripted; is that what you're 20 saying? 21 A. Every single thing. 22 Q. We will get to the rebuttal. 23 A. Even the outtakes. 24 MR. SANGER: Ready? 25 MR. MESEREAU: Yeah. 26 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Plaintiff's 27 Exhibit 809, was played for the Court and jury.) 28 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Now, you complained to 6446 1 Frank that the Germans are trying to dictate to you 2 what to say, right? 3 A. I didn't complain. I expressed myself. 4 Q. Is that what you expressed to him? 5 A. Yes. Because they were trying to dictate to 6 me exactly what to say. For example, also the 7 charitable act. They wanted me to say that me, 8 Michael, my children had went to Germany and gave to 9 German orphans. That's what they said. 10 I'm not going to do that. What's wrong with 11 the truth at that point? I thought he was a good 12 guy. Now I know different. 13 Q. Miss Arvizo, at any time in that rebuttal 14 tape, did you talk about going to Germany and 15 dealing with orphans, per the script? 16 A. No. Obviously they eliminated that. 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. Or maybe I forgot. I don't know. 19 Q. I understand. 20 A. I was -- like I told you, I got in trouble 21 for not doing exactly what they said, so that's why 22 the process of leaving out of the country had to 23 happen. 24 Q. Right. I understand. 25 A. You're correct, I did an inadequate job. 26 I'm a poor actress. You're right. 27 Q. I think you're a good one. 28 MR. ZONEN: I'm going to move to object. 6447 1 Ask the Court to admonish counsel. 2 THE COURT: I'll admonish counsel not to make 3 those remarks. 4 MR. MESEREAU: I will -- 5 THE COURT: Admonish the jury to disregard 6 such a remark. 7 I expect more professional behavior from 8 you. 9 MR. MESEREAU: I apologize, Your Honor. 10 I withdraw it. 11 THE COURT: (To the witness) And you must 12 only answer his questions. You're not to get into 13 arguments with him. It's as much your fault. Do 14 you understand that? 15 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. 16 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: You said that to Frank, 17 that what you say in the documentary has to come 18 from the heart, right? 19 A. Yes. I said -- yes, I did. I said, "Think 20 with your heart, not your head." Because our heart 21 has a lot of pure things in there. 22 Q. And when you said the things you said about 23 Michael Jackson on that rebuttal video, you were, in 24 fact, speaking from the heart, right? 25 A. It was all scripted. 26 MR. MESEREAU: Okay. Let's keep going. 27 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Plaintiff's 28 Exhibit 809, was played for the Court and jury.) 6448 1 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Now, you said you didn't 2 like someone named Mark Ratner, right? 3 A. Uh-huh. 4 Q. Mark Ratner was a director on the Rush Hour 5 movie, true? 6 A. Incorrect. 7 Q. Who was Mark Ratner? 8 A. I came to find out afterwards that it was 9 Marc Schaffel. 10 Q. Well, you talked about Mark Ratner. 11 A. There is no Mark Ratner. There's only Brett 12 Ratner. 13 Q. And -- 14 A. And I hadn't -- 15 Q. And who is Brett Ratner? 16 A. And I haven't spoke to Brett Ratner since my 17 children were with Chris, since 2001. I think -- 18 wait, 2000 -- I think it was January of 2001. 19 Q. Brett Ratner was the director on the Rush 20 Hour movie, right? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And where did you first meet him? 23 A. I met him for about -- Chris had taken the 24 children to -- that's when he was doing the filming 25 for Rush Hour 2. It was on the set. 26 Q. Did you ever see him at Neverland? 27 A. I never saw him at Neverland. 28 Q. Did you ever learn that Gavin had seen him 6449 1 at Neverland? 2 A. Yes, I came to find out that afterwards. 3 Q. And did you learn that Gavin had asked him 4 to take Gavin to Florida to see Michael? Did you 5 ever learn that? 6 A. You are -- you are -- I have a lot of 7 thoughts in my heart about you. 8 But he's incorrect. 9 Q. Did you ever learn such a thing? Yes or no. 10 A. What I learned afterwards is that Brett 11 Ratner, while I was over here in Los Angeles, and 12 Dieter had cornered my son, including with Michael, 13 to have him sign a piece of paper. That's what I 14 learned while I was over here in Los Angeles. 15 Q. Did you ever learn that Gavin wanted to go 16 to Florida to see Michael, and Brett Ratner wouldn't 17 permit it? 18 A. That's incorrect. 19 Q. Okay. 20 A. Because Brett Ratner, Dieter and Michael 21 were all there in Michael's house. 22 Q. Were you there? 23 A. My children were there. 24 Q. Were you there? 25 A. I wasn't there. 26 Q. Now, you talk about the Germans keep trying 27 to push Michael Jackson to drink. Do you see that? 28 A. Yes. How foolish I was. I thought he 6450 1 didn't drink. And they choreographed the little 2 scene in front of me where they were pretending like 3 he doesn't drink, and he doesn't even drink Pepsi, 4 and I fell for that. I did. Now I know a lot of 5 things. 6 Q. You complained that the Germans are trying 7 to get Michael Jackson to drink alcohol, right? 8 A. Yes. Like I said, I fell for it, their 9 little choreography. I thought he didn't drink. 10 They pointed out he didn't drink an ounce of 11 alcohol, not even Pepsi, and I fell for it. Yes, I 12 did. 13 Q. When you fell for this, how many times had 14 you stayed at Neverland? 15 A. This is the period before I left with Jesus. 16 This is this period. 17 Q. When you fell for this, how many times had 18 you stayed at Neverland? 19 A. This is the period before I left with Jesus. 20 Q. Okay. And did you watch the people you 21 refer to as the Germans trying to get Michael to 22 drink? 23 A. Yes. Michael was part of this choreography. 24 Michael had pointed out that he doesn't drink, and 25 the Germans said he doesn't drink and that he 26 doesn't even drink Pepsi. He was going, "No, no." 27 And now I know different. Now I know that 28 Neverland's all about booze, pornography and sex 6451 1 with boys. 2 MR. MESEREAU: Move to strike her comments 3 as self-serving. 4 THE COURT: They're stricken. The jury is 5 admonished to disregard those remarks. 6 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Plaintiff's 7 Exhibit 809, was played for the Court and jury.) 8 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Now, Frank says there are 9 evil people out there, and you agree with him, 10 correct? 11 A. Yes, I believed him. 12 Q. Okay. And he talks about making some 13 arrangements because you're not safe, right? 14 A. That's correct. 15 Q. And you thank him, correct? 16 A. Let me see. I'm just being appropriate. 17 Q. You're just being -- 18 A. I have manners. 19 Q. You're just being well-mannered? 20 A. I'm just having manners, because as you can 21 recall, I had left -- I believed what he had said. 22 MR. MESEREAU: Your Honor, can I move to 23 strike her comments? 24 THE WITNESS: So I went to Jay Jackson's 25 house instead of going back. 26 THE COURT: Just a moment. 27 All right. I'll strike after she said, "I'm 28 just having manners." 6452 1 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: When you agreed with Frank 2 that he should make arrangements because you weren't 3 safe, you were just being well-mannered, correct? 4 A. At this point, I'm being only well-mannered, 5 and I didn't agree. I was -- he was convincing me. 6 Q. I see. Okay. All right. 7 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Plaintiff's 8 Exhibit 809, was played for the Court and jury.) 9 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Now, you get back on the 10 line with Frank and he says, "How can I get in touch 11 with you, because I know sometimes your lines are 12 always busy." 13 And you say, "Yeah, it's like people are 14 calling like crazy, you know?" 15 Who are you referring to? 16 A. This is correct. A lot of people were 17 calling. They were interested in my son Gavin. 18 Q. And you were complaining to Frank about 19 that, correct? 20 A. No, I'm not complaining. This is in the 21 midst of a conversation. I didn't call him. He 22 called me. Many times. 23 Q. Did you ever complain to Frank that people 24 were calling you like crazy? 25 A. I stated to him -- the word here is, "Yeah, 26 it's like people are like calling crazy, you know." 27 MR. MESEREAU: Let's keep going. 28 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Plaintiff's 6453 1 Exhibit 809, was played for the Court and jury.) 2 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Now, Frank says to you, 3 "I'm going need to get through to you and talk to 4 you, because I want to get you out of there. 5 It's -- I don't think -- I don't want you -- I don't 6 think it's safe." 7 And Miss Arvizo, you respond, "It's not. 8 It's like it's crazy. Can I read you one of the 9 letters? It's like there are all kinds of things, 10 and it's of no interest to me, because family never 11 leaves family behind." 12 Do you see where you said that? 13 A. Yes, I do. 14 Q. You don't refer to any death threats at all, 15 do you? 16 A. No, I don't. 17 Q. You say it's not safe, and you talk about 18 all the letters you're getting. No reference to one 19 single death threat -- 20 A. That's because -- 21 Q. -- is that correct, Miss Arvizo? 22 Just please answer my question, if you can. 23 A. Yes, that's correct. 24 Q. Okay. 25 A. You don't have to raise your voice. I'm 26 here listening. 27 Q. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. 28 And then you say, "Family never leaves 6454 1 family behind, you know," right? 2 A. That's correct. 3 Q. You still consider Michael to be your 4 family, right? 5 A. That's because of the initial meeting where 6 he said -- 7 Q. Yes or no? 8 A. -- "Family never leaves family behind." 9 Q. You still considered Michael -- 10 A. At this point? 11 Q. -- to be part of your family? 12 A. He called himself family, and it -- 13 basically, like I said, people 50 or over have a 14 tender spot in my heart. Sometimes -- 15 MR. MESEREAU: May I object to the colloquy? 16 Move to strike. 17 THE COURT: Sustained. 18 Do you want to read the question back? Read 19 the question to her. 20 (Record read.) 21 THE WITNESS: I considered him to be like 22 family. 23 MR. MESEREAU: Okay. 24 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Plaintiff's 25 Exhibit 809, was played for the Court and jury.) 26 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Frank says to you, Ms. 27 Arvizo, "For your safety, and if we were to put a 28 secur -- maybe have somebody 24 hours outside your 6455 1 house, protecting your house from people, would you 2 mind if we do that?" And your answer is, "No." 3 Right? 4 A. My answer is, "No," I don't want that. 5 MR. MESEREAU: Keep going. 6 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Plaintiff's 7 Exhibit 809, was played for the Court and jury.) 8 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Now, Ms. Arvizo, after 9 Frank says, "Maybe have somebody 24 hours outside 10 your house, protecting your house from people, would 11 you mind if you do that?" And you say, "No," you 12 then talk about how your children's school is 13 bombarded; correct? 14 A. Yes, this is because Michael and the Germans 15 had told me that. 16 Q. Well, you didn't say that now, did you? 17 A. I did say that. 18 Q. You're in Los Angeles when you make this 19 comment, aren't you? 20 A. No, it's correct. I'm telling you -- you 21 want to know the information. You weren't there; I 22 was. Michael and the Germans had told me that. 23 MR. MESEREAU: May I ask -- would the Court 24 instruct the witness just to respond to my question? 25 THE WITNESS: I am responding. 26 THE COURT: You must listen to the question 27 and answer the question, and not try to advance 28 beyond the question. 6456 1 THE WITNESS: Okay. 2 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: You say to Frank, "So I 3 have my kids here, and the school is completely 4 cooperating with giving, like, me to work." He 5 says, "Okay." And you say, "My children's school is 6 like bombarded," correct? 7 A. This is correct. 8 Q. Frank goes, "I know," right? 9 A. That's correct. 10 Q. Then you say, "I didn't go to the other 11 apartment. It's like crazy over there," correct? 12 A. This is correct. 13 MR. MESEREAU: Let's keep going. 14 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Plaintiff's 15 Exhibit 809, was played for the Court and jury.) 16 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: You then tell Frank about 17 the apartment in East Los Angeles, correct? 18 A. This is correct. 19 Q. You tell him it's on North Soto Street, 20 right? 21 A. That's right. 22 Q. And after telling him that your children's 23 school is, like, bombarded, and that the other 24 apartment, it's like crazy over there, you tell him 25 that you didn't go to Soto Street. You went 26 straight to your mom's house, true? 27 A. This is -- this is correct. I told him I 28 came straight here to my mom's house from Neverland, 6457 1 to my mom's house, because I believed what the 2 Germans and Michael had said. 3 Q. Okay. 4 A. And I'm repeating what they said -- 5 Q. I see. 6 A. -- to Frank. 7 Q. That's your explanation for those comments, 8 correct? 9 A. This is -- this is accurate information. 10 MR. MESEREAU: Okay. Let's keep going. 11 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Plaintiff's 12 Exhibit 809, was played for the Court and jury.) 13 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Now, Miss Arvizo, after 14 talking about how your children's school is 15 bombarded, and it's crazy over at Soto Street, and 16 that you've gone to your mom's house and didn't go 17 to Soto Street, Frank says to you, "What if we were 18 to take you to a church up there? Because it's just 19 really important. You're going to have to have 20 somebody stay outside your house and watch you, your 21 house, protect and make sure nobody comes to your 22 house. Oh, I want to take you up to the ranch just 23 for your safety and your family." 24 And your response to that statement is, "Do 25 you have a cell number, Frank?" And he says, "Yes." 26 At no time do you say you don't want any of 27 that protection, do you? 28 A. At no time does it say a "Yes." 6458 1 Q. Your response to his statement about giving 2 you protection is, "Can I have your cell number?" 3 Right? 4 A. I just said, "Do you have" -- and prior to 5 that, you said something about church. I have never 6 missed Ash Wednesday. Never. 7 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; move to strike. 8 THE WITNESS: And when I was in Neverland, 9 they didn't take me to church. I missed Ash 10 Wednesday. 11 THE COURT: Just a moment. 12 I will strike that, those remarks. But, 13 Counsel, your question was so long and lengthy, one 14 wonders what one should comment on in it. 15 MR. MESEREAU: Okay. 16 THE COURT: And I'll ask you to refrain from 17 that type of question. It's causing problems here. 18 MR. MESEREAU: Yes. I'll rephrase it, Your 19 Honor. 20 Q. Miss Arvizo, referring you to Frank Cascio's 21 statement, it begins with "What if we were...," do 22 you see that? 23 A. Okay. 24 Q. He says to you, "What if we were to take you 25 to a church up there," right? 26 A. That's correct. 27 Q. "Because it's just really important," right? 28 A. Uh-huh. 6459 1 Q. And it says -- it says, "Inaudible," right? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And then he says, "You're going to have to 4 take somebody" -- excuse me. "You're going to have 5 to have somebody stay outside your house and watch 6 you," right? 7 A. Correct. 8 Q. He says, "Your house," right? 9 A. Uh-huh. 10 Q. Then he says, "Protect and make sure nobody 11 comes to your house," right? 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. "Oh, I want to take you up to the ranch just 14 for your safety and your family." Do you see that? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. And your response to that is, "Do you have a 17 cell number, Frank?" Right? 18 A. That's it. 19 Q. And he says, "Yes." 20 A. And it's not -- 21 Q. Right? 22 A. And it's not a "yes" from me. 23 Q. And it's not a "no" either, is it? 24 MR. ZONEN: It's argumentative; objection. 25 THE WITNESS: He's convincing me. 26 THE COURT: Excuse me, Counsel? 27 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; argumentative. 28 THE COURT: Sustained. 6460 1 MR. MESEREAU: Let's keep going. 2 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Plaintiff's 3 Exhibit 809, was played for the Court and jury.) 4 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Going further into this 5 taped phone conversation -- 6 A. And notifying that there's also numerous 7 tape breaks. 8 Q. I understand. 9 You say to Frank, "Is there a way I can get 10 back to you, Frank?" Do you see that? 11 A. Yes, I see that. I'm being polite. 12 Q. I understand. 13 And Frank -- 14 A. Because I not once - and when you see those 15 subpoenaed phone records - called him back during 16 this period. 17 Q. And you say, "Call you" -- 18 Your Honor, may I move to strike the 19 witness's comments? 20 THE COURT: I'm not going to strike it. The 21 last question listed is you just saying, "I 22 understand," and then she starts talking. So there 23 was no question and -- 24 MR. MESEREAU: Okay. 25 Q. Miss Arvizo, you say to Frank, "Is there a 26 way I can get back to you, Frank?" Correct? 27 A. Correct. 28 Q. Frank says, "Call you if there is an 6461 1 emergency," right? 2 A. Correct. And there's also a tape break. 3 Q. Yes. And then you say, "Okay, I have no 4 control (another phone is heard ringing) Frank. 5 People call and call. So when they call, it sounds 6 busy to whoever else. " Do you see that? 7 A. This is correct. 8 Q. Frank says, "Okay." And then you say, "This 9 is my mom's number." 10 A. Yes, I was at my mother's house. 11 Q. You gave Frank your mom's phone number, 12 true? 13 A. I gave Frank my mom's phone number? No. 14 Q. All right. 15 A. He himself had it. 16 Q. Okay. 17 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Plaintiff's 18 Exhibit 809, was played for the Court and jury.) 19 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: You said to Frank, "Don't 20 worry, Frank, we're a family, okay?" Do you see 21 that? 22 A. Oh, I see it right here. 23 Q. Frank says, "Okay." Do you see that? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. You say, "Michael's family to me." Then 26 it's inaudible. "My kids call him Daddy Michael." 27 Do you see that? 28 A. That's correct. This is correct. 6462 1 Q. Then he says, "But -- but Janet, you 2 understand like how we have to protect you and 3 Michael, Gavin and your kids. That's why I'm so 4 concerned." Do you see that? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And then you respond to Frank, "That's why 7 the German people said, 'You need no protection. 8 You're nobody' -- 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. -- "you know?" 11 And you say -- and Frank says, "No, that's 12 not true," correct? 13 A. Correct. Do you want me -- 14 Q. I'd like to ask you just some questions, if 15 I can, all right? 16 A. Okay. Sure. 17 Q. You complain to Frank that the German people 18 said you didn't need protection, because you're a 19 nobody, right? 20 A. No. It's -- it says, "That's why the German 21 people say, "I need no protection. You're nobody,' 22 you know?" 23 Q. And then Frank then responds, "No, that's 24 not true," correct? 25 A. Correct. Correct. But do you want 26 information on this statement? 27 Q. Did the German people tell you you don't 28 need protection, you're a nobody? 6463 1 A. Yes, they sure did. 2 Q. We'll move further on. 3 A. When they had me sign the paper -- 4 Q. Correct? 5 A. Oh, then he doesn't want you to know. 6 THE COURT: Just a moment. Just a moment. 7 Listen to the question and answer it. You're going 8 beyond the question. I've asked you not to do that. 9 THE WITNESS: Okay. This is just so hard, 10 Judge. For two years I've been waiting. 11 THE COURT: I'll strike that remark. 12 Go ahead, Counsel. 13 MR. MESEREAU: Let's go. 14 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Plaintiff's 15 Exhibit 809, was played for the Court and jury.) 16 THE COURT: Counsel? I'm sorry to break your 17 concentration, but I want to explain something to 18 the jury. 19 MR. MESEREAU: Sure. 20 THE COURT: If you need to start over on 21 that, you can. 22 (To the jury) During the course of this 23 trial, quite often I have said, "I'll strike that." 24 The purpose in doing that is twofold: One is to 25 tell you you're not to consider that, whether it's 26 testimony, whether it's remarks by an attorney, 27 whether it's remarks by a witness. And it also is 28 reflected in the record. 6464 1 Later, when you're deciding this case and 2 you're in the jury room, you may want to have 3 testimony read back. And when testimony is read 4 back to you, you don't -- that's not there. It is 5 stricken at that time, so the court reporter reads 6 it to you, she sees that it's stricken, she doesn't 7 read all of that to you. 8 So it may seem strange that I just say 9 "Strike that." But what it really means always is, 10 if I say "strike it," don't consider it. Don't 11 discuss it in your deliberations. It's sort of like 12 asking you to unring a bell that you've heard ring, 13 but as intellects, we are -- you know, we are 14 capable of deciding the case on information that's 15 admissible and not on information that's not 16 admissible, right? 17 Everybody on the jury understand that? 18 THE JURY: (In unison) (Nods head up and 19 down.) 20 THE COURT: All right. 21 MR. MESEREAU: Thank you, Your Honor. 22 THE COURT: Did you want to -- since I 23 interrupted you, did you want to play that section 24 back, or are you okay? 25 MR. MESEREAU: I think we're okay, Your 26 Honor. Appreciate it. Thank you. 27 Q. Miss Arvizo, you constantly complain about 28 the German people in this conversation, right? 6465 1 A. This is correct. 2 Q. And going back to the portion that we just 3 played, Frank tells you the following: "No, don't. 4 Listen, ah, you don't have to talk to them. Just 5 talk to me, talk to Michael, and I'm going to 6 arrange everything. But it's either we're going to 7 have to have somebody at your house this weekend or 8 we're going to have to take you to the ranch. This 9 way Michael -- Michael wants to see you. He's -- he 10 was almost -- he didn't know what happened. He 11 thought he did something and he was trying to get in 12 touch with you. And I said, 'Don't worry, I'll take 13 care of this.' So --" 14 And your response to that statement is, 15 "Tell him he's our family," right? 16 A. That is correct. 17 Q. You never object to having security at your 18 house, as Frank proposes, right? 19 A. I didn't -- I never said "Yes." 20 Q. Okay. 21 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Plaintiff's 22 Exhibit 809, was played for the Court and jury.) 23 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Going further, you keep 24 complaining about the German people. 25 A. Uh-huh. 26 Q. Frank says to you, "You don't have to talk 27 to them," right? 28 A. Correct. 6466 1 Q. You say, "I thought like everything, my 2 family was in jeopardy," correct? 3 A. This is correct. 4 Q. Frank responds, "No," right? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And your response to that is, "Meaning us 7 being with Michael and Michael being with us, 8 correct? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. What you said to Frank was you were 11 concerned about your family not being with Michael 12 and Michael being with your family, true? 13 A. I said, "I thought like everything, my 14 family, was in jeopardy." 15 Q. And then you say, "Meaning us being with 16 Michael and Michael being with us"? 17 A. Yes. I will never say no to love. 18 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Objection to 19 her -- move to strike the remarks. 20 THE COURT: I'm sorry, I don't understand the 21 question or the answer. 22 Would you just ask another question? 23 MR. MESEREAU: I'll ask another question, 24 yes, Your Honor. 25 Q. Frank says, "You don't have to talk to the 26 German people," and you say to him, "I thought like 27 everything, my family, was in jeopardy," right? 28 A. Yes. 6467 1 Q. And then you say, "Meaning us being with 2 Michael and Michael being with us," correct? 3 A. This is correct. 4 Q. After your escape with Jesus, you still want 5 Michael to be with your family, and your family to 6 be with him, true? 7 A. Yes. I thought it was all -- 8 MR. MESEREAU: Objection, Your Honor. 9 THE WITNESS: I believed what he said in 10 Miami. 11 THE COURT: Just a moment. 12 All right. Go ahead with your next 13 question. 14 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Plaintiff's 15 Exhibit 809, was played for the Court and jury.) 16 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Going further into this 17 tape, okay? 18 A. With the numerous tape breaks. 19 Q. I understand. Now, Frank says, "We need to 20 protect you and your family, so I'll call you in one 21 hour to see if you're okay," right? 22 A. Okay. Did you go farther up, higher, or -- 23 Q. Well, let's see, the pages aren't numbered. 24 So it starts at -- the top of the page starts with, 25 "...to do in a couple of hours...." Do you see 26 that? 27 A. Okay, this is from this previous page. 28 Q. Do you see that? 6468 1 A. And then on top. Okay. Okay. 2 Q. Yes. The first full quote from Frank Cascio 3 on that page, okay? 4 A. Okay. 5 Q. Frank says, "I'm going to call you just to 6 see how you're doing, because we need to protect you 7 and your family. So I'll call you in one hour to 8 see if you're okay." And you say, "Okay," right? 9 A. Uh-huh. This is correct, being polite. 10 Q. At no time do you disagree with the 11 continually repeated idea that your family needs 12 some protection, right? 13 A. And at no time do I request it. 14 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Plaintiff's 15 Exhibit 809, was played for the Court and jury.) 16 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: You tell Frank you're at 17 your mom's house. He says to you, "This is the 18 number to your mom's house," question mark, and you 19 say "Yeah," correct? 20 A. This is correct. 21 Q. Are you still telling the jury you never 22 wanted Frank to have the number to your mom's house? 23 A. He's calling at my mom's house. He asked 24 me, "Is this your mom's house?" I never gave it to 25 him. He already had it. 26 Q. Okay. 27 A. I'm at my mom's house. 28 Q. And you have no idea how Frank got the 6469 1 number to your mom's house, true? 2 A. That's correct. 3 Q. Okay. Now, going back a little bit -- 4 A. Oh, yeah, now I know how. 5 Q. I understand. 6 Going back a little bit, "I told them when 7 people neglected us, rejected us, they don't 8 know...," and then there's a tape break. It says, 9 "Um, Baby Rubba." 10 What were you referring to when you said, 11 "People neglected us and rejected us"? 12 A. My husband, my ex-husband David Arvizo, with 13 his family. 14 Q. Were you referring to anyone else? 15 A. No. Nobody else. 16 Q. Do you remember in the rebuttal video where 17 you accused the Department of Children & Family 18 Services of neglecting your family? 19 A. Maybe it was -- maybe it was put in another 20 context, but that's what I meant. My ex in-laws. 21 Q. They're the only people you're referring to, 22 right? 23 A. That's exactly right. 24 Q. Okay. Now, in that rebuttal tape, you also 25 talk about your family being spit on and 26 discriminated against and things like that, correct? 27 A. Yes. Yes. 28 Q. And are you only referring to David's family 6470 1 when you say that? 2 A. Part of it is David's family. And David. 3 Mostly David. 4 Q. And who's the rest of it? 5 A. Mostly David, his family. And just 6 different things like that. Different experiences. 7 Q. But in that tape you talk about more people 8 than David and his family. 9 A. Are we talking about this tape or -- 10 Q. I'm asking about the rebuttal tape now, 11 okay? 12 A. Okay. 13 Q. You talk about -- excuse me, in that tape, 14 you say words to the effect, "We've been spit on, 15 we've been fried, we've been rejected because of our 16 race," and a whole bunch of things, right? You're 17 not referring to David's family when you say that? 18 A. Are you missing the point that it was all 19 scripted? 20 Q. I'm asking you a question, Miss Arvizo. 21 Could you please answer it? 22 A. Okay. Remember in the initial meeting in 23 Miami how I was just telling everything about -- to 24 the Germans? Well, obviously they were in the works 25 in doing the script since back then. 26 Q. So when you say words to that effect in this 27 conversation -- 28 A. This conversation. 6471 1 Q. -- the Brad Miller interview and the 2 rebuttal video, you're only referring to David's 3 family? 4 A. Brad Miller audiotape and this is referring 5 to David's -- David mostly, with his family. But in 6 the rebuttal, like I said, it was all scripted. All 7 of it. It was the information that they had 8 extracted from me and my children. And it's pretty 9 obvious that it's very ingrained, the experiences 10 that I have felt and gone through with my ex family, 11 which is David's family. 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. And they put it in with their little script. 14 Q. Okay. 15 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Plaintiff's 16 Exhibit 809, was played for the Court and jury to 17 its conclusion.) 18 MR. MESEREAU: Your Honor, I think that 19 completes the recording of the phone conversation. 20 THE COURT: Okay. 21 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Now, Miss Arvizo, you 22 filed for divorce from David approximately five days 23 after you settled the J.C. Penney case, correct? 24 A. I filed for divorce after David was arrested 25 for domestic violence. 26 MR. MESEREAU: Your Honor, may I ask the 27 Court to instruct the witness to answer the 28 question? 6472 1 THE WITNESS: Well, your question was 2 about -- 3 THE COURT: Just a moment. 4 Would you read the question back to the 5 witness? 6 (Record read.) 7 THE WITNESS: I don't know about that. He 8 wanted a history as far as when, and I'm telling 9 you, I filed for divorce the day after -- not the 10 day after, but after David finally was arrested for 11 domestic violence. 12 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: In your case against David 13 for domestic violence, you told the Los Angeles 14 Police Department that he had been abusing you for 15 many years, true? 16 A. This is correct. 17 Q. You told the Los Angeles Police Department 18 that he had been abusing you since you were married, 19 correct? 20 A. This is correct. 21 Q. Had David been abusing you from the time you 22 were married? 23 A. This is correct. 24 Q. You told the Los Angeles Police Department 25 that for approximately 17 years, he had been 26 physically and emotionally abusing you, right? 27 A. This is correct. 28 Q. You also said he had been abusing your 6473 1 children for the entire marriage, correct? 2 A. This is correct. 3 Q. But in the J.C. Penney case, when you wanted 4 money, you said the opposite about David, didn't 5 you? 6 A. That's incorrect. When David was arrested, 7 I went to Rothstein's office, who was in charge of 8 the civil -- civil proceedings, of the civil J.C. 9 Penney's lawsuit, and I told him David has finally 10 been arrested. I want to correct this statement 11 that me and my children were unable to say because 12 he was still part of our life. 13 And I went to their office, and they told me 14 that they would take care of it. And that's why 15 when the police asked me to waive this information 16 of my civil lawsuit, I did happily. And yet these 17 Rothstein people did not do that. I told them to 18 inform J.C. Penney's and Tower Records that that 19 information was incorrect right after David was 20 arrested. I finally was liberated to say what 21 actually had been going on for years. 22 Q. Miss Arvizo -- 23 A. So you're inaccurate. 24 Q. Well, Miss Arvizo, do you remember having 25 your sworn deposition taken in the J.C. Penney case? 26 A. Yes. 27 Q. And that was a case that you had filed 28 claiming you were sexually abused by J.C. Penney by 6474 1 the security guards in a public parking lot, 2 correct? 3 A. I gave the civil lawyers the information 4 about what happened, just as I told the police 5 department, the West Covina Police Department. 6 Now, how they write their statement, how 7 they do these paperworks, I don't know. But it's 8 only one story. And it's been repeated over and 9 over. How they put it in this paperwork, I don't 10 know. I wasn't the attorney. 11 Q. Miss Arvizo, you gave a sworn deposition in 12 that case where you were placed under oath, correct? 13 A. This is correct. 14 Q. And you filed a claim for monetary damages 15 against J.C. Penney, correct? 16 A. This is correct. 17 Q. You were claiming that you had suffered 18 physical injury because of what J.C. Penney security 19 guards did to you, correct? 20 A. Tower Records. 21 Q. Correct? 22 A. This is correct. 23 Q. And to prove your claim for monetary 24 damages, you had to explain that your physical 25 injuries were solely the result of what J.C. Penney 26 and Tower Records had done to you, correct? 27 A. This is correct. And they had me explain, 28 to the millisecond, of the process while I was being 6475 1 hurt. 2 Q. Your deposition was taken on December 18th, 3 the year 2000, correct? 4 A. Yes, while I was still married and David was 5 with me and my children. Yes, that's correct. 6 Q. And what year did you file for divorce from 7 David? 8 A. Approximately in 2001. When David was 9 arrested. 10 Q. And on December 18th, the year 2000, you 11 were asked under oath, "Has David Arvizo ever struck 12 you," and you said, "No." 13 A. This is correct. 14 Q. You were asked under oath, "Has David ever 15 struck your children?" You said, "No. We goof 16 around a lot, though, play." Correct? 17 A. Yes. This is correct. 18 Q. You were not telling the truth under oath 19 when you made those statements, correct? 20 A. But prior to settlement, I had went to 21 the -- to Rothstein's office and I requested that 22 they fix that, after David was arrested, because I 23 finally could open my mouth. And this -- I want you 24 to have a picture of this. 25 MR. MESEREAU: Move to strike, Your Honor. 26 THE WITNESS: This is when Gavin is going 27 through chemotherapy. 28 THE COURT: Just a moment. Just a moment. 6476 1 I'll strike her answer to that. 2 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Further in that 3 deposition -- 4 THE COURT: Just a moment. 5 MR. MESEREAU: Oh, I'm sorry. Pardon me. 6 THE COURT: Do you want to go back to the 7 question you asked? The answer has been stricken. 8 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, if we could have it read 9 back, Your Honor, I'd appreciate it. 10 (Record read.) 11 THE WITNESS: This is correct. 12 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Further, in that 13 deposition, you were asked, "Have you had any 14 marital problems at all other than related to this 15 incident at J.C. Penney?" And you said "No." 16 Right? 17 A. This is correct. I was -- by the time that 18 David had gotten arrested, I was never going to tell 19 anything that he had done to me or my kids. Never. 20 Q. You lied under oath to increase the amount 21 of money you could get from what you claimed J.C. 22 Penney and Tower had done to you, right? 23 MR. ZONEN: Objection; argumentative. 24 THE COURT: Sustained. 25 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Now, in that deposition, 26 you were asked when you decided to file a lawsuit, 27 correct? 28 A. Correct. 6477 1 Q. You said you decided to file a lawsuit 2 against J.C. Penney and Tower Records two weeks 3 or two or three weeks prior to the expiration date. 4 Remember that? 5 A. I don't understand what your question is. 6 Q. Well, I'm just going to ask you about your 7 answer. And I can show you the page, if you want to 8 see it. 9 A. No, I just don't understand your question. 10 I don't know whether you're making a statement or an 11 actual question. 12 Q. Then that's my mistake. I'll rephrase it. 13 A. Okay. That's okay. 14 Q. In your deposition under oath, in the J.C. 15 Penney case, you were asked the question, "When did 16 you decide to file a lawsuit?" Do you remember 17 that? 18 A. Yes. Yes. 19 Q. And your answer was, "Two weeks or two or 20 three weeks prior to the expiration date." 21 A. This is correct. If it's on there, it is 22 correct. 23 Q. Then you were asked, "Was that before or 24 after the criminal charges had been dropped?" 25 Remember that? 26 A. Yes. 27 Q. And you said, "Way after," correct? 28 A. Yes. 6478 1 Q. When you used the words "expiration date," 2 you were referring to the deadline that you had to 3 file charges -- excuse me, file a lawsuit before, 4 correct? 5 A. That's what I was explained. 6 Q. You would lose your right to file a civil 7 suit if you didn't file it by a certain date, 8 correct? 9 A. That's what I was explained by the civil 10 attorneys. 11 Q. And -- 12 A. If there's anything that sounds worth -- 13 worth of any intelligence there, that's what I was 14 informed. No credit to me. Only to the civil 15 attorneys. 16 Q. Well, you knew enough to say under oath that 17 you filed your civil case before the deadline, 18 right? 19 A. Because of attorneys had made me aware of 20 that. 21 Q. Are you aware of the deadlines that you or 22 your children have to file claims against Mr. 23 Jackson? 24 A. We will never file a claim against Mr. 25 Jackson. I want justice here. 26 Q. Are you aware, Ms. Arvizo, of the deadlines 27 you have to file a civil claim against Mr. Jackson? 28 Yes or no. 6479 1 A. I think so. I'm not interested, so I don't 2 ask. 3 Q. I understand. And in this case you weren't 4 interested until after the criminal investigation 5 was over, correct? 6 A. I wanted an apology. 7 MR. ZONEN: Which case is counsel referring 8 to? Vague. 9 MR. MESEREAU: I will rephrase it. The 10 prosecutor is correct. 11 Q. In the J.C. Penney case, you waited till 12 after a criminal investigation was over to file your 13 civil claims, true? 14 A. I wanted an apology. 15 Q. You wanted over $100,000, didn't you? 16 A. I didn't get over $100,000. 17 Q. You got 152,000 in the settlement, Miss 18 Arvizo, didn't you? 19 A. In -- in my hand, I did not get $150,000. 20 MR. MESEREAU: May I ask the witness be 21 instructed -- 22 MR. ZONEN: I think she just answered. 23 THE WITNESS: I answered. 24 THE COURT: It was -- your question, your 25 last question, was basically whether she got a 26 certain amount, and she's trying to answer that. 27 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: The settlement to you 28 and -- 6480 1 THE COURT: Just a minute. Let her finish 2 the answer. 3 THE WITNESS: In my hand, I received only 4 $32,000. That's it. In my hand. And that's my 5 best approximation. 6 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Miss Arvizo, what did 7 Gavin get in his hand from that settlement? 8 A. I don't remember, because it's been put away 9 where it's to be untouched by me. 10 Q. What did Star get in his hand in that 11 settlement? 12 A. Still nothing. I don't know, because 13 it's -- it's something that's untouched by me. It's 14 for them. 15 Q. What did David get in his hand from that 16 settlement? 17 A. That's -- you're going to have to ask David, 18 and yet he was not injured whatsoever. 19 Q. The total was over $152,000 that your family 20 was given in the settlement, true? 21 A. That you have to ask my civil attorneys. 22 And I think his statement may be correct. 23 Q. Okay. You claimed in that case that you had 24 bruises from what the security guards did to you, 25 right? 26 A. It is correct. 27 Q. After you had resolved that case and 28 obtained money, you claimed that you were bruised by 6481 1 David, true? 2 A. I had always been bruised by David for 3 years. But I never told anyone until after David 4 was arrested. That was the pivotal point in my 5 life. Not until David was arrested did I say 6 anything about bruises in my whole entire life, and 7 that was only with people of authority. That's it. 8 Q. When you were seeking money from J.C. Penney 9 and Tower Records, you testified under oath on 10 December 18th, the year 2000, that you never had any 11 black and blue marks prior to the incident at J.C. 12 Penney, correct? 13 A. Yes, this is correct. I was too embarrassed 14 to ever tell anyone. 15 Q. You made that statement because you wanted 16 any injury you ever had to be attributed to J.C. 17 Penney and Tower Records, right? 18 A. Incorrect. What J.C. Penney's and Tower 19 Records did to me was one day, one situation, one 20 incident. That's it. 21 Q. If you had testified truthfully under oath 22 and said that your bruises were from David, the 23 amount of monetary damages you could get from J.C. 24 Penney would have been lowered, true? 25 A. This is incorrect. I would have never told 26 anyone until David got arrested that I -- that David 27 was giving me these bruises. Never. People would 28 see me with bruises and I would never, never, never 6482 1 tell them. 2 Q. Did you lie under oath in your deposition in 3 the J.C. Penney case? 4 A. I tried to remedy that when I had gone to 5 my -- after David was arrested, I went to 6 Rothstein's office. And I requested that they 7 inform Tower Records and J.C. Penney's that I would 8 like to make that correct statement because the 9 statements that were there were incorrect. But 10 finally me and my kids could finally say what was 11 really happening for many, many years. 12 Q. Mrs. Arvizo, the problem you had was that 13 when you made allegations later on against David 14 that he had abused you for 17 years, there was a 15 deposition that had previously been taken where you 16 said the opposite under oath, right? 17 A. You're -- it's too long. There's a yes and 18 no and yes and no, and now I don't know. 19 THE COURT: Let's take a break. 20 (Recess taken.) 21 THE COURT: Mr. Mesereau? 22 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, thank you, Your Honor. 23 Q. Miss Arvizo -- 24 THE BAILIFF: You need to turn your 25 microphone on, please. 26 MR. MESEREAU: Oh, thank you. 27 THE COURT: You missed a good show of hands 28 there. 6483 1 Give it to him again, would you? 2 Look, look, look. 3 (Laughter.) 4 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Miss Arvizo, did you tell 5 the jury that David was not honest in the J.C. 6 Penney case? 7 A. Me? 8 Q. Yes. 9 A. Okay. Ask the question again. 10 Q. I'll rephrase it. Did you tell the jury 11 words to the effect that your ex-husband David did 12 not tell the truth in the J.C. Penney case? 13 A. Are we talking about the grand jury or the 14 civil lawsuit? 15 Q. The civil lawsuit. 16 A. Did I tell a jury? 17 Q. Did you tell this jury today that David did 18 not tell the truth in the J.C. Penney civil suit? 19 A. We weren't talking about David. I was 20 telling you what I -- David had done to me and the 21 children. 22 Q. David sued J.C. Penney with you, correct? 23 A. This is correct. 24 Q. David claimed he was injured in that parking 25 lot with you and your children, correct? 26 A. To my -- what I was aware of is that he 27 wasn't injured. And that's it. 28 Q. But he was suing, with you, for monetary 6484 1 damages for being injured, right? 2 A. I came afterwards. David -- when I walked 3 up to the situation, he was being hit by these 4 people. So I don't know what happened prior to me 5 arriving there. So I'm unaware. 6 Q. During the time you had your deposition 7 taken in the J.C. Penney lawsuit -- 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. -- did you consider David to be an honest 10 person? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Do you remember testifying under oath in the 13 J.C. Penney lawsuit that, "David is extremely 14 honest. He's too honest"? 15 A. If that's on there, then that's correct. 16 Whatever's on the deposition is correct. 17 Q. Do you remember saying that under oath? 18 A. If it's on there, then it is. 19 Q. Would it refresh if I just show it to you? 20 A. I'm just asking, if it is on there, it's 21 correct. 22 Q. Okay. I have to get a response from you as 23 to whether you said that or not, okay? 24 A. If it's on there, it's correct. And it 25 would be a yes, if it's on there. 26 Q. Would it refresh your recollection just to 27 show it to you first? Would that help? 28 A. It's a yes. 6485 1 Q. Your answer is "yes"? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. You did say under oath that, "David is 4 extremely honest. He's too honest"? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And you weren't telling the truth when you 7 made that statement under oath, correct? 8 A. Anything to do with David, no. That's why I 9 went to the civil attorneys, to try to correct that 10 after he was arrested. 11 Q. Let me get this straight, now. You went to 12 the civil attorneys to try and change your testimony 13 after you collected a settlement? 14 A. Incorrect. The settlement still had not 15 been corrected, accepted or settled. Anything like 16 that. It was still prior. 17 Q. Now, you claimed you were assaulted in a 18 public parking lot by J.C. Penney security guards, 19 correct? 20 A. Plus Tower Records. 21 Q. And Tower Records, right? 22 A. That's right. 23 Q. You said you thought you were going to die, 24 correct? 25 A. Yes. 26 Q. Did you think you were going to die in a 27 public parking lot when you were assaulted by these 28 security guards? 6486 1 A. Yes, I did, because it came to a point where 2 I couldn't breathe. 3 Q. Okay. You testified the security guards 4 were doing belly flops on top of your body, right? 5 A. That's what I was told. 6 MR. ZONEN: I'll object as beyond the scope 7 of the 402 hearing. 8 THE COURT: The objection is overruled. 9 Do you want to read the question back to 10 her? 11 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, please, Your Honor. 12 Thank you. 13 (Record read.) 14 THE WITNESS: This is correct. 15 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: And you also claimed that 16 security guards in a public parking lot pulled your 17 breasts out of your blouse and squeezed your nipple 18 between 10 to 25 times, correct? 19 A. No, they didn't pull my breasts out. 20 Q. What did you claim happened? 21 A. In the course of me getting beat up, I was 22 laying flat on the floor. My breasts had came out 23 of my bra. 24 Q. Did you testify under oath that your nipple 25 was squeezed by one of the guards 10 to 25 times? 26 A. At this moment, the attorney, who was the 27 defense attorney, wanted me to describe everything 28 by the millisecond, even though, in my depositions, 6487 1 I keep saying, over and over, "It was like this. It 2 was like this." And instead, he wanted me to go 3 millisecond per millisecond, so I described it the 4 best I could as it was happening. But if you 5 fast-forward, that would have been fast. 6 Q. And how did you describe the sexual assault? 7 A. Like I said, the wording as far as how the 8 civil attorneys did, that was their choice of words. 9 There was only one, how I described it, and that's 10 how they put it in. 11 Q. Please tell the jury how you were sexually 12 assaulted. 13 A. Well, to me - me - I feel that my breast 14 area and anything to do with my -- with down there, 15 my private area, is considered my sexual organs. 16 That's how I see it and how I feel about it. So if 17 you place your hands on me in that area, I'm going 18 to say that. 19 Q. And please tell the jury how you were 20 sexually assaulted in that public parking lot. 21 A. Okay. When I was laying on the floor, while 22 they're beating on me, one of the Tower Records 23 guys, who incidentally -- this can be verified. I 24 think he was also fired for doing this to some other 25 people after this, so -- but this person, while I 26 was laying on the floor getting beat up, he had his 27 hand over and over on my breast and on the front 28 area of my private area. My pants were on. There 6488 1 was no intercourse, no rape, no nothing like that. 2 I was just trying to describe that his hands were on 3 my breasts, which I think I repeatedly kept saying I 4 just wanted his hands off of me, and that's it. 5 Q. Do you remember testifying your nipple was 6 squeezed 10 to 25 times? 7 A. Yes. Again, it was he wanted me -- to 8 humiliate me, like he's trying to do at this moment, 9 and making me to say it millisecond per millisecond. 10 Q. You testified to these facts to get money, 11 true? 12 A. It was a civil lawsuit, yes, it was. 13 Q. Now, you claim in that lawsuit that Gavin's 14 cancer was made worse by the security guards, true? 15 A. I don't think so. I think -- I think I said 16 something that Gavin was having the chemotherapy at 17 this time when they wanted the deposition to occur. 18 Q. You also claim that Star's cyst was made 19 worse by the security guards, correct? 20 A. Incorrect. 21 Q. Did you ever make such a claim? 22 A. Incorrect. 23 Q. What did you say about Star in that 24 situation? 25 A. I think -- and this is the best I can 26 remember, and we're talking 1998 here when this 27 happened. This is the best I can try to remember. 28 He's got a big, giant book right there, and I have 6489 1 nothing in front of me. 2 And, let me see, I think what happened was 3 when we went to the doctors, they did -- they put 4 him in this tube, and when it came out, they ended 5 up telling me that Star has a cyst on his brain, but 6 this is something that is -- that Star has. That's 7 it. Has nothing to do with J.C. Penney's lawsuit. 8 I'm -- of course, getting hit on the head doesn't 9 help if you've got a cyst on your brain. 10 Q. Do you know someone named Mary Holzer? 11 A. Yes, I do. 12 Q. Please tell the jury who Mary Holzer is. 13 A. Mary Holzer is a giant Michael Jackson fan. 14 And she's also a -- an office manager. This is my 15 understanding. She told me she was an office 16 manager for Rothstein civil law -- civil law firm. 17 Q. And who is the Rothstein civil law firm? 18 A. The Rothstein civil law firm is a firm that 19 was responsible for the lawsuit. 20 Q. Do you remember, after you had settled that 21 case, telling Mary Holzer that you lied in the case? 22 A. That is inaccurate. 23 Q. Okay. Do you remember telling Mary Holzer 24 that David's brother is in the Mexican mafia? 25 A. That's incorrect. 26 Q. And that he sells drugs here and in Las 27 Vegas? 28 A. That's incorrect. 6490 1 Q. You said, "He's going to come after you and 2 your daughter if you ever tell anyone what I'm 3 revealing to you"? 4 A. Incorrect. 5 Q. Okay. So that never happened, right? 6 A. That never happened. 7 Q. And if Mary Holzer comes into court and says 8 that, she'd be lying; is that correct? 9 MR. ZONEN: Objection; argumentative. 10 THE WITNESS: Yes, she would. Yes, she 11 would. 12 THE COURT: Just a moment. 13 The objection to the question is sustained. 14 The question and answer are stricken. 15 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: How many lies under oath 16 do you think you told in your depositions in the 17 J.C. Penney case? 18 A. Like I said, I tried -- after David was 19 arrested, I went to the Rothstein office and I 20 pointed out to them, prior to a settlement 21 agreement, that I would like to correct the 22 statements that were inaccurate, because finally 23 David was arrested. Finally, we and my children 24 could speak. And Rothstein, including with Mary 25 Holzer, said, "Don't worry. We'll take care of it." 26 And they didn't. So I considered their firm 27 a -- liars. 28 Q. But not you, right? 6491 1 A. That's correct. 2 MR. ZONEN: Objection; argumentative. 3 THE COURT: Sustained. The remark's 4 stricken. 5 You're admonished not to make those remarks. 6 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, Your Honor. 7 Q. You testified in that deposition in the J.C. 8 Penney case that you had worked as an undercover 9 agent. Do you remember that? 10 A. Me? 11 Q. Yes. 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Where did you -- 14 A. I don't think the way you're using it is 15 correct. 16 Q. Remember you said you had worked in internal 17 security? 18 A. What he's trying to say, he's trying to make 19 it bigger than it is. I used to be a loss 20 prevention agent way back in -- I think it was 1990. 21 We're talking about 15 years ago. That's my best 22 estimate. I used to work at Von's. Just, you know, 23 people that took an orange, took a banana, things 24 like that. 25 Q. Remember you were asked the question, "And 26 you were an undercover type of agent?" And you 27 answered, "Yes"? 28 A. Yes. That's what they called it. It was 6492 1 loss prevention agent. You wore plain clothes and 2 you stopped people when they take items without 3 purchasing them from the market, from Von's market. 4 A grocery store. 5 Q. How long did you work in that capacity? 6 A. I think I worked there for -- my best 7 estimate, best estimate, maybe - this was about 15 8 years ago - maybe about one year. Maybe. My best 9 estimate. This is having to recall 15 years ago. 10 Please, this is an approximation of dates. 11 Q. You testified in that case that security 12 agents in the public parking lot punched you, 13 correct? 14 MR. ZONEN: Which case are we talking about? 15 Von's? 16 THE WITNESS: Yes. 17 MR. MESEREAU: J.C. Penney case. Was there 18 a case against Von's? 19 I haven't have said that, Your Honor. 20 THE COURT: You're right, you shouldn't 21 have. 22 The District Attorney, you're admonished to 23 object according to the legal standards for 24 objections. 25 MR. ZONEN: The objection is vague, then, 26 Your Honor. 27 THE COURT: It's a little late. 28 I'm not going to allow you to engage in that 6493 1 type of conversation with each other or with the 2 witness. 3 MR. MESEREAU: I apologize. 4 THE COURT: Do you want me to shut the trial 5 down this afternoon? 6 MR. MESEREAU: No, Your Honor, I don't. 7 THE COURT: Then let's start taking this 8 seriously and act correctly. 9 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, Your Honor. 10 THE COURT: Go ahead. 11 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: In the J.C. Penney case, 12 you claimed under oath that you were punched with 13 closed fists in the parking lot of J.C. Penney, 14 correct? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. You also claim that you were punched with 17 handcuffs, like they were brass knuckles, correct? 18 A. Read -- what are you talking about? If I 19 said that I was beat up, that includes everything 20 they did. 21 You know, he wants me to recall something 22 that happened in 1998 and break it down while he's 23 got a big, giant book right here. 24 Q. In the J.C. Penney case, did you claim under 25 oath that you were punched with handcuffs as if they 26 were brass knuckles? 27 A. I remember -- I remember seeing the female 28 having the handcuffs inside her fingers like this. 6494 1 That's what I remember seeing. 2 Q. And after being punched all these times in 3 the parking lot, you said you thought you were going 4 to die and it was like you were in a cave in a 5 tunnel. Do you remember that? 6 A. Yes, it did feel that way. It did feel that 7 way. 8 Q. You said security guards were punching Gavin 9 and Star, correct? 10 A. Can you please read -- bring me that where 11 it says that? 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. Because my son -- both of my sons were hurt. 14 Q. Were they hurt by security guards? 15 A. No, bring me -- 16 Q. Were they hurt by security guards? 17 A. Yes, they were. 18 Q. Okay. You said Gavin didn't get up. He 19 just laid on the floor, right? 20 A. I think -- he's being general. My son was 21 pushed and -- by one of them, causing his elbow to 22 fracture. He ended up having a fracture, so -- 23 Q. And you said Gavin had cancer in both his 24 lungs, right? 25 A. Now, are we going at that time? 26 Q. Yes, at that time. 27 A. Okay. He's mixing up the facts purposely. 28 When my son was deposed in 2000, he had 6495 1 cancer. And they had -- progressively it went to 2 both of his lungs. At that time when both my 3 boys -- the summer of first grade when this happened 4 with J.C. Penney's, no, he did not have cancer. But 5 when he was deposed, yes, he did. 6 Q. And he had cancer in both of his lungs at 7 that point, right? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Okay. 10 A. Stage IV. 11 Q. Do you know an attorney named George Owen 12 Feldman? 13 A. No, I don't know him. 14 Q. Has George Owen Feldman ever represented 15 you, to your knowledge? 16 A. Never. 17 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I just 18 showed you a document you signed with his name on 19 it? 20 A. Sure. Go ahead. 21 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor? 22 THE COURT: Yes. 23 THE WITNESS: Okay. And I think that's 24 something that your office, Mr. -- Mr. Sneddon's 25 office -- 26 THE COURT: Just a minute. There's no 27 question pending. 28 THE WITNESS: Oh, okay. I was ready to -- 6496 1 THE COURT: Just a moment. 2 THE WITNESS: Okay. 3 THE COURT: Go ahead, Counsel. 4 MR. MESEREAU: Okay. 5 Q. Have you had a chance to look at that 6 document? 7 A. Yes, I have. 8 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about who 9 George Owen Feldman is? 10 A. I've never been represented by George Owen 11 Feldman, but I understand what he's trying to say, 12 the paperwork. 13 Q. So you never have been represented by that 14 lawyer, right? 15 A. Never. 16 MR. ZONEN: Objection; asked and answered. 17 THE WITNESS: Never. 18 THE COURT: Sustained. 19 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you remember testifying 20 under oath in the J.C. Penney deposition that you 21 weren't interested in suing? 22 A. I wanted an apology. 23 Q. Did you ever withdraw your suit for money? 24 A. No. 25 Q. Are you telling the jury that you blame your 26 descriptions of what happened to you on your 27 attorneys? 28 A. What? 6497 1 Q. Are you telling this jury that you blame the 2 way you describe your injuries in that case on your 3 lawyers? 4 A. No. Like -- I'm going to try to make out 5 what he's trying to say. However I spoke to them 6 and however they communicated to the court, that's 7 how it was. 8 Q. Did you testify under oath the way your 9 lawyers told you to? Is that what you're saying? 10 A. What? 11 Q. Did you testify under oath in that 12 deposition the way your lawyers told you to? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Are you blaming your descriptions about what 15 happened to you in the parking lot on your lawyers? 16 MR. ZONEN: Objection. Vague as to 17 "descriptions." 18 THE COURT: Overruled. 19 You may answer. 20 THE WITNESS: Okay. I'm going to try -- I'm 21 trying to feel for what he's asking. 22 How I communicate -- communicated to him, to 23 them, is once. As I told the police, I told them. 24 Now, what they -- how they put it on paper, 25 I have no control of that. He was not -- I wasn't 26 one of the knights of the round table sitting there 27 and coming up with proper words what to say. 28 That's it. One story. That's it. The same one I 6498 1 told to the police. 2 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: When did you meet Michael 3 Jackson? 4 A. I think it was, my best estimate, August of 5 2000. 6 Q. Do you remember signing a document prepared 7 by the Santa Barbara Sheriff's Department on 8 December 18th, 2003? 9 A. Okay, I think -- is it the paper you just 10 showed me? 11 Q. Yes. But I have a -- 12 A. I can't answer unless you tell me exactly. 13 You know, there was a lot of paperwork. 14 Q. Would you like to see it? 15 A. Well, I'm asking you, please, is it the same 16 one that you just came up here and showed me? 17 Q. It is. 18 A. Okay. Then, yes. I've signed many 19 paperworks of theirs. 20 Q. Let me ask you the question again. 21 A. Okay. 22 Q. Do you recall signing a document prepared by 23 the Sheriff's Department of Santa Barbara County on 24 December 18th, 2003? 25 A. I think so. 26 Q. Would it refresh your recollection just to 27 look at the date and your signature? 28 A. No. That's -- is that the one that you just 6499 1 showed me? 2 Q. It is. 3 A. Then -- then, yes. 4 Q. You did sign that document -- 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. -- on December 18th -- 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. -- 2003? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. All right. Now, do you remember signing a 11 document prepared by the sheriff's department that 12 said the following: "From time to time, between 13 January 1st, 2000, and the present date, I consulted 14 one or more of those lawyers concerning Michael 15 Jackson's interaction with me and my children at 16 Neverland Ranch in Santa Barbara County and 17 elsewhere, in this and other states, and concerning 18 the return of some furniture stored by or in the 19 name of Brad Miller at Dino's Storage in North 20 Hollywood, Los Angeles County." 21 Do you remember signing a document that had 22 those words? 23 A. Do you want me to have the document, like -- 24 we've had this discussion over since August. 25 MR. MESEREAU: Object, Your Honor. 26 THE WITNESS: Since August, the same 27 thing -- 28 THE COURT: Just a moment. I want you to 6500 1 answer the question. The question is, do you 2 remember signing that document? 3 THE WITNESS: Yes. Yes. 4 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: And the document said that 5 you had started investigating Michael Jackson 6 sometime between January 1st, 2000, and the date you 7 signed the document, which is December 18th, 2003, 8 right? 9 A. Yes. If that's -- those words are on there. 10 Q. Why would you start investigating Michael 11 Jackson around January 1st, 2000, if you didn't meet 12 him till August 2000? 13 A. Okay. Let me explain something to you. And 14 this has already been discussed, and he knows the 15 answers. This was discussed at the end of 16 September. 17 MR. ZONEN: I'm going to object to this part 18 of the answer as nonresponsive. 19 THE COURT: Sustained. 20 THE WITNESS: This -- when the sheriffs were 21 doing their investigation, they wanted to know every 22 single detail about me. George Owen Feldman is -- I 23 think he's associated in the same law firm of 24 Rothstein. 25 So the -- the police department did an 26 extensive, extensive search on me as a person, and 27 so they want -- they put everything in a general 28 form so they can have access to everything about me 6501 1 and my past, because they wanted to verify and make 2 sure that what they were going to do towards this 3 goliath was going to be accurate and truthful. And 4 that's why this -- this paper was made in such a 5 general way. 6 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Are you now telling the 7 jury that George Owen Feldman did represent you? 8 A. No, he didn't represent me. 9 Q. At any time? 10 A. No, he didn't represent me. He is one of 11 the people inside the civil law firm. But my 12 understanding -- my understanding was that it was 13 only the Rothstein -- Rothstein and another attorney 14 named Adler, another attorney named Ramieri. That 15 was my understanding, and it still is today. 16 Q. Let me try and ask the question again - 17 okay? - in a clearer form, because perhaps I was not 18 clear. And I apologize if I wasn't. 19 You signed a document that said from time to 20 time between January 1st, 2000, and the date you 21 signed the document, you were investigating Michael 22 Jackson through various lawyers, correct? 23 A. Okay. There's more information on that 24 paperwork which he purposely has taken out of 25 context. It's -- certain events are attached to 26 specific attorneys. Certain situations are attached 27 to certain attorneys. 28 Like I said, the police wanted to do an 6502 1 extensive, thorough investigation on me prior to 2 doing it on him. So they wanted everything about 3 me. So they made it in a general form. But he 4 keeps taking it out of context. 5 MR. MESEREAU: I don't want to offend the 6 Court, Your Honor. I don't think I actually got an 7 answer to that, but I will leave it to the Court's 8 discretion. 9 THE COURT: Ask your next question. 10 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, Your Honor. 11 Q. You did sign this document, correct? 12 A. Yes, I did. 13 MR. MESEREAU: I would move it into 14 evidence, Your Honor. 15 THE COURT: It's admitted. 16 MR. ZONEN: I will object, given the prior 17 ruling dealing with confidentiality of the -- 18 MR. MESEREAU: It's redacted. 19 MR. ZONEN: Perhaps we could argue this at 20 the next break or the conclusion of the proceedings. 21 THE COURT: All right. I'll withhold ruling 22 on it, on its admissibility, till -- 23 MR. MESEREAU: Shall I submit it to your 24 clerk, Your Honor? 25 THE COURT: Have you numbered it? 26 MR. MESEREAU: I have not. 27 THE COURT: Will you do that now, so we have 28 a record of what you're talking about? 6503 1 THE CLERK: 5007. 2 THE COURT: 5-0 -- 3 THE CLERK: 5007. 4 THE COURT: All right. I'll withhold ruling 5 until we hear from the District Attorney. 6 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, Your Honor, at this time 7 we'd like to play the rebuttal tape. 8 MR. SANGER: Exhibit 340. 9 THE COURT: 340. 10 Are you ready? 11 (Whereupon, a portion of a DVD, Plaintiff's 12 Exhibit 340, Disk 1, was played for the Court and 13 jury.) 14 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Now, Miss Arvizo, you are 15 laughing at various times during this tape. Was 16 that something that you scripted in advance? 17 A. I was nervous. Brad Miller was standing 18 right next to the camera, right in front of me. 19 Q. Was the laughing something that you scripted 20 in advance? 21 A. Yes. Also, Dieter wanted that included. 22 Q. Is everything that your son is saying 23 memorized? 24 A. Everything -- they took all the information 25 from us, information that did exist, back from 26 Miami, and information that they had already, they 27 studied us and got background information -- 28 MR. MESEREAU: Move to strike, Your Honor. 6504 1 THE WITNESS: -- and then they put it all 2 together. 3 THE COURT: Just a moment. 4 THE WITNESS: I answered your question. 5 THE COURT: I think that could be answered 6 "yes" or "no." The question is, "Is everything that 7 your son is saying memorized?" 8 THE WITNESS: Everything is -- is going 9 according to what Dieter had scripted. 10 THE COURT: Go ahead. 11 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Is it memorized? 12 A. I think so. 13 Q. Okay. 14 (Whereupon, a portion of a DVD, Plaintiff's 15 Exhibit 340, Disk 1, was played for the Court and 16 jury.) 17 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Ms. Arvizo, were the words 18 you just articulated on that tape all memorized? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Were you lying on this tape? 21 A. No. I'm a poor actress. That's why they 22 started the proceeding to go do the passport and the 23 visa. That's what Vinnie had communicated to me; 24 that what I did was inadequate. 25 Q. You were not lying on this tape? 26 A. Acting. 27 Q. Let me rephrase the question. 28 The jury just heard the words you expressed 6505 1 on the tape, right? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. Were they lies? 4 A. Acting. 5 MR. MESEREAU: Your Honor, may I request 6 that the witness be instructed to answer the 7 question? 8 THE COURT: Well, the question was, "Were 9 they lies?" And she said, "Acting." 10 MR. MESEREAU: I can rephrase it, Your 11 Honor. 12 Q. When you said what the jury just heard you 13 say on this tape, were you telling the truth? 14 A. I was acting. I don't know how you want me 15 to define it. I mean, you're not going to call 16 Halle Berry and say, "Are you Catwoman?" She's 17 going to tell you she's acting. She's just acting. 18 She's not a liar. 19 I was acting. That's it. 20 Q. Are the words you said on that tape the 21 truth? 22 MR. ZONEN: Objection; asked and answered. 23 THE COURT: Sustained. 24 (Whereupon, a portion of a DVD, Plaintiff's 25 Exhibit 340, Disk 1, was played for the Court and 26 jury.) 27 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Ms. Arvizo, was what you 28 just said about Michael Jackson being fatherly the 6506 1 truth? 2 A. Everything on here was choreographed by 3 Dieter and Ronald, specifically Dieter, and it's all 4 acting. And I failed at that. 5 Q. Are the words you spoke true or false? 6 A. The words I spoke were part of a script. 7 Q. Were you telling the truth or not? 8 A. I was acting. 9 Q. Was Gavin telling the truth or not, as far 10 as you were concerned? 11 A. As far as -- 12 MR. ZONEN: I think that's speculative. 13 I'll object. 14 THE COURT: It's overly broad. I'll sustain 15 the objection. 16 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Was it your belief that 17 Gavin was acting in this tape? 18 A. Yes, because I had seen Dieter work with my 19 children prior to Jesus taking us back to my mom's 20 house. I had seen Dieter work with me and my 21 children. 22 Q. Did you believe that what Gavin was saying 23 was true or false? 24 A. I believe, like I told you, Dieter had 25 worked with us continuously on this script. 26 Q. Did you believe what Gavin said was the 27 truth or not? 28 A. I believe what he was saying was keeping to 6507 1 the script. 2 (Whereupon, a portion of a DVD, Plaintiff's 3 Exhibit 340, Disk 1, was played for the Court and 4 jury.) 5 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Now, Ms. Arvizo, you said 6 that you and your children were neglected and spit 7 on, right? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And who were you referring to? 10 A. They took elements of my life and my 11 children's life which were truthful and incorporated 12 it into their script. And this happened in the 13 initial meeting in Miami. They already had -- they 14 were already in the works on this. It took me a 15 while to find out. And it's taken many other people 16 to find out later, too. 17 Q. Who neglected your family? 18 A. In this script, everything is scripted. But 19 if you're making a general question, you already 20 have the specifics on that. 21 Q. When you said your family was spit on, who 22 were you referring to? 23 A. On this rebuttal thing, everything is 24 scripted. They took elements of mine and my 25 children's life which were true and incorporated in 26 here. 27 Q. When you said, "Everybody tossed us aside," 28 who were you referring to? 6508 1 A. This is all scripted here. 2 Q. When you said, "We weren't in the right zip 3 code, and we weren't the right race," what were you 4 referring to? 5 A. This was all scripted. 6 For those answers, you need to ask Dieter. 7 Q. But wouldn't you agree that on numerous 8 other occasions you said exactly the same thing? 9 A. That's correct. 10 Q. You even said words to that effect on that 11 phone call you had with Frank when you didn't know 12 you were being recorded. 13 A. That's correct. 14 Q. And your answers weren't scripted there, 15 were they? 16 A. No, they weren't. They -- like I said, they 17 took elements of mine and my life -- mine and my 18 children's life and put it into this script. 19 Q. Well, not referring to what you say on this 20 tape, but referring to what you said on other 21 occasions when you didn't know you were being 22 recorded, what did you mean when you said, "Our 23 family has been neglected and spit upon," et cetera? 24 What were you talking about? 25 A. Outside this rebuttal, we're talking about 26 David. 27 Q. Okay. 28 (Whereupon, a portion of a DVD, Plaintiff's 6509 1 Exhibit 340, Disk 1, was played for the Court and 2 jury.) 3 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Now, Ms. Arvizo, you had 4 been very critical of David for not defending you 5 and your children like a father should, correct? 6 A. He would have to defend us from his own 7 self. 8 Q. Were you critical of David for not defending 9 you in the J.C. Penney case the way you thought he 10 should? 11 A. I was not critical. 12 Q. Never were? 13 A. No, I was just -- he just stood there. 14 Q. Didn't you say that you had -- excuse me. 15 Let me rephrase the question. 16 Didn't you say on one occasion that you 17 would forgive David for not acting like a man in 18 that parking lot? 19 A. I don't remember clearly, but I can -- I can 20 try to recall for you. 21 I'm getting beat up on the floor. And the 22 history is David had always been beating me up. And 23 this one moment that he could have done something 24 for me, he allowed these people to beat on me while 25 I was laying flat on the floor, while he stood like 26 a coward on -- it was like a little sidewalk. 27 That's where he stood. 28 If that's what you want -- 6510 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. -- that's the best I can recall. 3 Q. Now, you say in this tape about -- excuse 4 me. Davellin says in this tape, about Michael, "The 5 fact that he stood up and defended us, that's a 6 father." Was that just scripted? 7 A. Okay. All this on the video, plus the 8 outtakes, everything is scripted. Michael, when we 9 arrived in Miami, he had like a 45-minute 10 lovey-dovey meeting with us. 11 Q. Okay. And they started scripting it in 12 Miami? 13 A. They must have. They must have started all 14 this stuff way before I was even called up -- up to 15 Miami. They must have. 16 Q. So they were scripting you in Miami, but you 17 didn't know what they were doing, right? 18 A. Like I said, we're going to have to call 19 Ronald, Dieter, all of them in here to find out what 20 they were up to. Or Michael, he could come up here. 21 Q. Were you being scripted in Miami without 22 knowing it? 23 A. I don't know. I don't know. 24 (Whereupon, a portion of a DVD, Plaintiff's 25 Exhibit 340, Disk 1, was played for the Court and 26 jury.) 27 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Miss Arvizo, is what you 28 just said memorized? 6511 1 A. Yes. And -- yeah. 2 (Whereupon, a portion of a DVD, Plaintiff's 3 Exhibit 340, Disk 1, was played for the Court and 4 jury.) 5 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: As far as you were 6 concerned, was everything Gavin just said memorized? 7 A. As far as I'm concerned. Like I say, I 8 pointed out, Dieter had worked on us, with us. And 9 also, I would like to maybe help you remember, this 10 was -- 11 MR. MESEREAU: Could I get a "yes" or "no" 12 answer, Your Honor? 13 THE COURT: Yes. Do you want the question 14 read back? 15 THE WITNESS: Sure, please. 16 (Record read.) 17 THE WITNESS: Yes. 18 (Whereupon, a portion of a DVD, Plaintiff's 19 Exhibit 340, Disk 1, was played for the Court and 20 jury.) 21 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Now, Ms. Arvizo, you say 22 that because you're with Michael, you don't have 23 money problems, correct? 24 A. Scripted. And remember, this is being 25 filmed at 3 a.m., right before the CPS meeting. 26 Q. Now, you say that everything the jury has 27 just watched and heard on this videotape was 28 memorized and rehearsed, right? 6512 1 A. Yes. And while I was over here, in Jay 2 Jackson's apartment they had their claws in my three 3 kids. 4 Q. How long did it take all of you to memorize 5 all the words that the jury just heard you say? 6 A. Well, they worked -- Dieter -- while I was 7 there, in my presence, Dieter worked, well, with us 8 daily, and about on the average of ten times a day. 9 And then when I came over here, and the children 10 were over there, who knows how many times. That you 11 would have to get from my children. 12 Q. Let's talk about you only. You said you sat 13 down with Dieter ten times a day, correct? 14 A. My best estimate. 15 Q. And where did you do that? 16 A. In one of the guesthouses, the one that 17 looked like the little boy's room. That one. 18 Q. This is the first time, after numerous 19 police interviews and after going to the grand jury, 20 that you've ever said, "I met with Dieter ten times 21 a day to memorize my words," right? 22 A. No, I said, "Many times daily." 23 Q. Okay. 24 A. That's my words, but you want specific 25 answers. 26 Q. So you said everything the jury just heard 27 was memorized, and I'm just asking you how long it 28 took you to memorize all of it. 6513 1 A. How long? 2 Q. Do you think. 3 A. Well, I didn't do a good job. 4 Q. How long do you think it took you to 5 memorize all of this? 6 A. I couldn't give you an answer. 7 Q. Was it all memorized word for word? 8 A. I did my best. 9 Q. And was it all written out in advance? 10 A. Yes, it was. 11 Q. So how -- how many pages were in this 12 script, if you know? 13 A. Well, at the end of the video right here, 14 you can see Christian have the script himself. And 15 probably Bradley Miller also had it, because he was 16 standing right next to the cameraman right in front 17 of us. Brad Miller's job was to report to Dieter if 18 we did everything we were supposed to do. 19 Q. Was everything written out word for word in 20 advance? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Okay. 23 A. They're very detailed. 24 Q. And you just memorized every page, true? 25 A. I did my best. 26 Q. Okay. 27 A. And I failed. 28 MR. SANGER: That was the end of that first 6514 1 disk. We have the second disk. 2 THE COURT: I understand. 3 You ready? 4 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, Your Honor. 5 MR. SANGER: Oh, we've got to -- just a 6 second. 7 THE COURT: Do you want me to put it on 8 "Black"? 9 MR. SANGER: Oh, you can leave it on. I 10 just wanted to squelch the high-pitched tone that 11 would be otherwise heard. 12 THE COURT: That was pretty good of you to 13 remember that. 14 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Plaintiff's 15 Exhibit No. 340, Disk 2, was played for the Court 16 and jury.) 17 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Miss Arvizo, was what you 18 just said memorized word for word? 19 A. Yes, I tried to do my best. 20 MR. MESEREAU: Do you want to take a break 21 at this point, Your Honor? 22 THE COURT: That would be good. Thank you. 23 (Recess taken.) 24 THE COURT: Mr. Mesereau? 25 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, thank you, Your Honor. 26 Q. Miss Arvizo, before we continue with the 27 tape, I'd like to clarify something. Did you tell 28 the jury earlier that even the outtakes were 6515 1 scripted? 2 A. Yes. Everything. The whole entire -- from 3 the moment we got to Hamid's house, Brad Miller 4 there -- was there, Michael's P.I. 5 Q. So when you said about Gavin, "He was doing 6 gang signs. That was what he was doing. He's -- 7 he shot out to his friends on the west side," was 8 that all scripted? 9 A. Everything; everything was scripted. 10 Q. Okay. We can continue. 11 THE BAILIFF: You need to push the "DVD" 12 button. 13 MR. SANGER: I pushed "DVD." I'm going to 14 pause for a second. Shall we just pick up? We 15 missed ten seconds, but I'll just go ahead. 16 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Now, Miss Arvizo, this is 17 the portion of the videotape where you refer to the 18 Department of Child Social Services, right? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And you told the jury that you were 21 criticized for referring to them in the videotape, 22 right? 23 A. As I told you before, I got in trouble by -- 24 because I mentioned -- I went off the script with 25 God, cancer, and the Child Welfare Services, those 26 three things -- 27 Q. Okay. 28 A. -- specifically, Vinnie told me. 6516 1 Q. So now you're off the script -- 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. -- when you criticize the Department of 4 Child Social Services, right? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. You were speaking of your own free will when 7 you said that, correct? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And when you said, "So where are all these 10 people that -- that have all of a sudden this care 11 and concern throwing the child advocacy group on me, 12 the Department of Child Social Services," you were 13 telling the truth, correct? 14 A. At that point where I went off, God, the 15 Child Welfare Services, and the cancer, so that one 16 word. 17 Q. Were you criticizing the Department of Child 18 Social Services? 19 A. No. That one word I went off the script, 20 and so I got in trouble for it. 21 Q. Were you criticizing the Department of Child 22 Social Services? 23 A. No. That was part of the script, the child 24 advocacy. 25 Q. That was part of the script? 26 A. Yes. I added the -- the Child Welfare 27 Services in a way that was off the script. 28 Q. And why were you criticizing that agency? 6517 1 A. Well, I had the Child Welfare Services 2 meeting that morning, and it blurted out, so I got 3 in trouble for it. 4 Q. Were you worried about the meeting? 5 A. No -- yeah, I was worried about the meeting, 6 so I got in trouble for that. 7 Q. So you were being critical of DCFS, correct? 8 A. No, no, I wasn't. That came out. 9 Q. It came out, but you were -- 10 A. No, the word, the one word, "Child".... 11 MR. MESEREAU: We can move on. / 12 (Whereupon, a portion of a DVD, Plaintiff's 13 Exhibit 340, Disk 2, was played for the Court and 14 jury.) 15 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Ms. Arvizo, everything 16 said in this interview was memorized, correct? 17 A. Everything was except for what I got in 18 trouble for. Those are the three things. I was 19 supposed to say that Michael healed Gavin -- 20 MR. MESEREAU: Your Honor, could I -- could 21 the Court admonish the witness to just answer the 22 question? 23 THE COURT: Yes. 24 Just answer the question. 25 THE WITNESS: I thought I was answering it. 26 THE COURT: Yes, go ahead. 27 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Everything was memorized 28 word for word, right? 6518 1 A. Yes, except when I blurted out the little 2 meeting that I was going to have in a matter of 3 hours. I wasn't supposed to blurt that out. And I 4 did. I failed. 5 Q. Now, you told the jury yesterday that during 6 this period of time where you claim your family was 7 falsely imprisoned, that you never reported it to 8 the police, correct? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. And you told them that you didn't report it 11 to the police because you thought no police officer 12 in Los Angeles would believe you, correct? 13 A. That's correct. 14 Q. And because you thought no police officer 15 would ever believe you, you never talked about being 16 held against your will, right? 17 A. Is that a question? 18 MR. ZONEN: Objection; vague. To whom? 19 MR. MESEREAU: Let me rephrase it. 20 Q. What is the period of time that you claim 21 you and your family were held against your will by 22 people associated with Mr. Jackson? 23 A. From -- approximately from February to 24 March. 25 Q. And -- 26 A. That's my best estimate. 27 Q. And what date was this rebuttal video, if 28 you know? 6519 1 A. This was -- the best I can remember is being 2 taken there on the 19th about 11 p.m. at night, 3 approximately. And then it went into the morning of 4 the 20th, was filmed at about 3 a.m. And that 5 morning, about nine o'clock, was the meeting. 6 Q. During the time you claim your family was 7 held against their will, were you in contact with 8 any police officers? 9 A. No. 10 Q. Do you know a Los Angeles police officer 11 named Andrew Lassak? 12 A. Officer Lassak, yes, I do. 13 Q. Who is Officer Lassak? 14 A. Officer Lassak is a friend. 15 Q. How long has he been your friend? 16 A. He's been my friend since I think 17 approximately -- let me see. Oh, you know, after 18 David was arrested from domestic violence. That 19 period of, I think, about 2001. 20 Q. And during the period of time you claim you 21 were being held against your will, you were 22 communicating with Andrew Lassak, correct? 23 A. No, that's incorrect. 24 Q. Well, do you remember an interview you had 25 with the Santa Barbara Sheriff's Department where 26 you mentioned Andrew Lassak? 27 A. Yes. 28 Q. Remember while you were discussing what 6520 1 Vinnie was doing, you told the interviewer, "He's 2 one of the LAPD officers that I had told him about 3 things that were happening?" Do you remember that? 4 A. I don't think you're saying it correctly. 5 You're leaving things out from the beginning and in 6 front of that. 7 Q. Would it refresh your recollection to see 8 what you told the Santa Barbara sheriffs when you 9 were interviewed? 10 A. No. You don't need to -- I'm saying to you, 11 you're not saying it completely to the jurors. 12 What he's trying to say is I was -- after I 13 met with Mr. Dickerman and Mr. -- in the process of 14 that, of the attorneys, I tried to reach Officer 15 Lassak. And in between that was when I had 16 contacted him in order to get help to let him know 17 what was going on. 18 And then in the midst of that, that's when 19 the sheriffs, the Santa Barbara sheriffs got 20 involved, and the Santa Barbara sheriffs, which is 21 on my police report, stated that he didn't need to 22 get involved, that it happened over here, so 23 therefore they're the ones that are going to take 24 over the investigation. 25 Q. During the time you claim you were falsely 26 imprisoned, you had phone conversations with Andrew 27 Lassak, correct? 28 A. Incorrect. 6521 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. But during the police interview, yes. 3 Q. He is with the Hollenbeck Division, correct? 4 A. That is correct. 5 Q. The Hollenbeck Division of the Los Angeles 6 Police Department is the division where your Soto 7 Street address is, right? 8 A. That is correct. 9 Q. Okay. And you're saying you never told 10 anyone from the Santa Barbara Sheriff's Department 11 that you were in communication with Andrew Lassak 12 during that period of time? 13 A. When we were having a police interview, 14 Officer Lassak happened to call because I was trying 15 to put in a call, like I said, between the attorneys 16 and the Santa Barbara sheriffs. This period was 17 Officer Lassak, way after Neverland, because finally 18 I was able to make contact with him. 19 Q. Do you remember telling Officer Lassak, 20 "Something big is happening. I can't talk about it. 21 I have lawyers"? 22 A. I never said something like that. 23 Q. So if he said you said that, that wouldn't 24 be true? 25 MR. ZONEN: Objection. Argumentative; 26 speculative. 27 THE COURT: Sustained. 28 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Did you know an LAPD 6522 1 officer named Patrick Metoyer? 2 A. Yes, I did. 3 Q. When did you meet Patrick Metoyer? 4 A. Officer -- the same time Officer Lassak, I 5 met him. 6 Q. And what year would that be? 7 A. That would be in 2001. 8 Q. Did you know a Sergeant Milt Hernandez from 9 the LAPD? 10 A. And Officer Metoyer is no longer working for 11 LAPD. 12 Q. Did you know a Sergeant Milt Hernandez from 13 the LAPD? 14 A. That -- that name doesn't sound familiar. 15 Q. Do you remember talking to him? He's with 16 the Hollenbeck Division. 17 A. I think what you're trying to refer to is 18 someone who was there as a watch commander or 19 something like that. 20 But not a friend. He's not a friend. 21 Q. When did you first meet him? 22 MR. ZONEN: Who's "him"? Objection; vague. 23 MR. MESEREAU: Milt Hernandez. 24 Q. When did you first meet him? 25 A. If it's the same -- 26 MR. ZONEN: Objection; assuming facts not in 27 evidence that she ever met him. 28 MR. MESEREAU: I'll rephrase it, Your Honor. 6523 1 Q. Did you ever meet Sergeant Milt Hernandez 2 from the Hollenbeck Division? 3 A. No, never. 4 Q. Did you ever speak to him on the phone? 5 A. If it's the same person, I think it was 6 inquiring about the LAPD Explorers, because I was 7 interested in moving Davellin from the Wall Street 8 Central Division up to the Hollenbeck Division, if 9 that's -- 10 Q. And approximately when did you talk to him, 11 if you remember? 12 A. I don't remember. 13 Q. You said you first met LAPD Officer Andrew 14 Lassak -- 15 A. And this is the best I can remember. 16 Q. You said you first met LAPD Officer Andrew 17 Lassak in 2001; is that correct? 18 A. That is correct. 19 Q. And how did you meet him? 20 A. I think it was because of a call or 21 something like that. 22 Q. And what are you talking about? 23 A. That's the best I can remember. 24 Q. You said it's a call about something? 25 A. Yeah, that's the best I can remember. 26 Q. Did you call him? 27 A. No, I didn't. 28 Q. Did he call you? 6524 1 A. No. 2 Q. Did you ever ask him to assist you or your 3 family in anything? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Did you ever ask him to drive you home? 6 A. Not me personally. 7 Q. Did he ever drive you home? 8 A. I think so, yes. In the LAPD car, yes. I 9 do recall that. 10 Q. And when did LAPD Officer Andrew Lassak 11 drive you home? 12 A. He drove me home because I had -- both my 13 feet were operated. 14 Q. And how did you get in touch with him? 15 A. I think there was a call, a request for 16 help, and he helped me out. I don't really recall. 17 Q. He drove you home from the welfare 18 department, didn't he? 19 A. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Yes. 20 Q. Okay. And through him, you met a number of 21 LAPD officers, did you not? 22 A. Yes. Just met, not friends. 23 Q. And they were in the Hollenbeck Division 24 where your Soto Street home was, correct? 25 A. That's correct. And I don't know any of 26 their names. 27 Q. And you met all these officers in 28 approximately 2001, right? 6525 1 A. This is correct. 2 Q. You also met some officers from the 3 Metropolitan Transportation Authority, also called 4 MTA, right? 5 A. This is correct. 6 Q. And who did you meet from the MTA -- excuse 7 me, let me rephrase that. 8 What police officers did you know from the 9 MTA? 10 A. That department, to the best I can remember, 11 was dissolved. It's no longer. They were all sent 12 out to different departments, because that was -- 13 that had ended. But I did get to meet - which I 14 completely lost contact with them - I think it was a 15 female officer and a male officer. No, actually -- 16 yeah. That was the initial officers I met, yes. 17 But they're no longer existent. 18 Q. How do you know that? 19 A. Because I drove -- I rode the bus frequently 20 and I never got to see them again anymore. They 21 were substituted by private security. Because LAPD 22 used to run the metro department. 23 Q. Did you ever meet a Sergeant Chiu from the 24 Rampart Division? 25 A. Sergeant Chiu. That name doesn't sound 26 familiar. 27 Q. How about a Cindy Garcia? 28 A. I may have. But it doesn't sound familiar. 6526 1 Q. How about a Detective Angulo, A-n-g-u-l-o, 2 from the Hollenbeck Division? 3 A. It doesn't sound familiar. Because of 4 Officer Lassak, I got to meet a lot of officers, but 5 they weren't my friends. Just when he was doing his 6 patrol, he would stop by and he would have someone 7 with him. He was -- what are those officers called 8 when they're -- oh, he was a training officer. So 9 he constantly had someone he was training. 10 Q. And at one point you had LAPD Officer 11 Lassak's cell phone number, didn't you? 12 A. Yes, I did. 13 Q. Do you remember the number? 14 A. No, I don't. 15 Q. And he did some nice things for you and your 16 family, didn't he? 17 A. Yes, he -- he was our friend. 18 Q. Please tell the jury the nice things that 19 LAPD Officer Andrew Lassak did for you and your 20 family. 21 MR. ZONEN: I'm going to object as 22 irrelevant. 23 THE COURT: Sustained. 24 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Ms. Arvizo, the truth is, 25 you knew a lot of police officers near where you 26 lived, you could have called any of them and said 27 you were the victim of crime, and you didn't, right? 28 A. It would have been helpful, but Officer 6527 1 Lassak was recently married in about June. And out 2 of respect I figured he's got a new wife, and it's 3 best that I don't communicate with him. So I lost 4 communication the day he got married, right before. 5 Q. Did you ever hear of a group called Big 6 Brother or Adopt-a-Family? 7 A. No, but -- no, but I came to find out now 8 that maybe those kind of things are -- 9 Q. I'm sorry? 10 A. That's what I told you. 11 Q. Okay. When you were interviewed by Santa 12 Barbara sheriffs -- 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. -- did you ever mention that you had met 15 Andrew Lassak and a bunch of other officers through 16 a group called Big Brother or Adopt-a-Family? 17 A. I think that was Officer Robel or Officer 18 Zelis that mentioned that. It wasn't I that said 19 that. 20 Q. Excuse me. Let me rephrase that. 21 Did you ever participate with LAPD Officer 22 Andrew Lassak in any type of group involving family 23 support in East Los Angeles? 24 A. Okay, Officer -- I think I know what you're 25 referring to if -- 26 Q. Yeah, whatever -- please tell the jury 27 whatever it is. 28 A. Okay, Officer Lassak -- usually all the 6528 1 department -- this is what was explained to me. 2 Each officer personally picks someone, someone from 3 the community or someone they like, or anything, and 4 they put their name into some kind of -- I don't 5 know how it works, but this is how I came to 6 understand. That they put their name into some -- 7 something, and then they pick families out of there. 8 And that's it. 9 Q. And was your family chosen to participate? 10 A. Yes. Officer Lassak put me and my kids in 11 there. 12 Q. Approximately when was this? 13 A. This was in -- I don't remember. But it was 14 Christmas. 15 Q. Do you know approximately what year? 16 A. No, I wouldn't be able to tell you that, but 17 I know it was Christmas. 18 Q. Was it before you think you met Michael 19 Jackson? 20 A. No, it was after. Because I -- like I said, 21 I met Officer Lassak after David was arrested. 22 Q. And for the jury's benefit, approximately 23 when was David arrested? 24 A. About -- I don't know. My best estimate, 25 September, October of 2001. That's my best 26 estimate. 27 Q. And in your interview with the Santa Barbara 28 sheriffs, you said that Mr. Lassak would come with 6529 1 different officers and make jokes, right? 2 A. Yes. He would -- like I said, Officer 3 Lassak, even though he was a corporal, he's also a 4 training officer. And he would bring different 5 officers, and he would stand in the doorway, and 6 he'd make jokes with the kids. 7 Q. Now, which doorway was this? 8 A. My front door to my apartment. 9 Q. Okay. And you said he'd get a big kick out 10 of the kids telling him jokes, right? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And do you know who the officers are that he 13 used to bring to your front door? 14 A. I wouldn't be able to tell you, because the 15 majority of them never came twice. They just would 16 come once. 17 Q. How many would he often bring -- excuse me, 18 let me rephrase that. 19 How many officers would Mr. Lassak bring to 20 your house at one time? 21 A. Well, whoever he was training at that time. 22 Q. What's the largest number of officers he 23 ever brought to your house? 24 A. Well, him and the other person he was 25 training. 26 Q. And did you ever go to the police department 27 to see him, where he worked? 28 A. I don't think so. 6530 1 Q. Did you used to see Officer Lassak driving 2 around the Hollenbeck Division? 3 A. Yes, I did. 4 Q. And you were a friend of his for a number of 5 years, weren't you? 6 A. Up until he got married. Because when he 7 got married, I felt it's a new marriage, and out of 8 respect, he needs to dedicate himself to his wife. 9 And I don't think it would be very respectful for me 10 to be a friend when he's supposed to be dedicating 11 his time to his new wife. 12 Q. Okay. Do you remember the names of other 13 officers in the Hollenbeck Division that you knew 14 around the time Officer Lassak used to come to your 15 doorway? 16 A. Only Officer Lassak. 17 Q. Did Officer Lassak ever arrange any type of 18 fund-raiser for your family? 19 A. No, outside from him putting -- putting us 20 in that Christmas thing, that's it. No fund-raiser. 21 Q. Now, what Christmas thing was this? 22 A. It was -- every officer picks somebody and 23 they put it in like a bag, and that's it. 24 Q. Okay. And where did this take place? 25 A. In the Hollenbeck Division. 26 Q. And what location did this Christmas event 27 take place? 28 A. In the Hollenbeck Division. 6531 1 Q. Okay. Was that at the police station? 2 A. I think it was. 3 Q. Did you bring your children to the police 4 station? 5 A. I didn't go. 6 Q. Did your family participate in that event? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. How? 9 A. Officer Lassak had came by and told the kids 10 that on this day they were going to have like a 11 Christmas party. And that's it. 12 Q. And who went to the Christmas party from 13 your family? 14 A. Davellin, Gavin and Star. 15 Q. Okay. And this is after 2001, right? 16 A. It definitely has to be, because it was -- 17 I met Officer Lassak after David was arrested, and 18 that's my best estimate. 19 Q. When is the last time you spoke to Attorney 20 Larry Feldman? Don't say what you said. That's 21 confidential. But when was the last time you spoke 22 to Attorney Larry Feldman? 23 A. I -- I wouldn't be able to tell. I couldn't 24 remember. 25 Q. Have you been in any communication with him 26 in the last month? 27 A. Let me see. Let me see. 28 No. It's only the times that I was 6532 1 receiving subpoenas from your office was -- yeah, 2 that's the best I can remember. 3 Q. Have you talked to him in the last couple 4 weeks? 5 A. I don't think so. I've been here. 6 Q. Have you talked to Attorney Larry Feldman in 7 the last couple of weeks? 8 A. Let me see. You know what? When was -- 9 when did he testify? 10 Q. I can't answer questions. 11 A. Oh, okay. I'm only saying that would help 12 me remember. Because it was before that time. 13 Q. Have you talked to Attorney Larry Feldman 14 while this trying has been going on? 15 A. Oh, yes, yes. 16 Q. How many times? 17 A. Oh, I wouldn't be able to tell you that. 18 Just about every time you sent a subpoena. 19 Q. Okay. Would it be accurate to say that 20 while this trial has been going on you've talked to 21 him more than once? 22 A. Oh, yes. Every time they sent a subpoena. 23 Q. Okay. 24 THE COURT: Counsel, there may be a little 25 ambiguity there as to, "while the trial has been 26 going on." 27 MR. MESEREAU: Oh, okay. I understand. 28 THE COURT: What "the trial" is to some 6533 1 people is different than others. 2 MR. MESEREAU: Sure. Let me rephrase it. 3 Q. You're aware that Attorney Larry Feldman 4 testified in this trial, right? 5 A. Yep. Yes. 6 Q. How did you know that? 7 A. Because I had seen "Accuser's Mother's 8 Attorney Testifies." I seen that, something like 9 that. 10 Q. Okay. Within the last few months, you've 11 been in contact with Attorney Larry Feldman, have 12 you not? 13 A. Yes, yes. 14 Q. You've been in contact with him on a number 15 of occasions? 16 A. Yes, every time they sent a subpoena over. 17 Q. Okay. Okay. Now, I think you've answered 18 this question, but let me just be specific. 19 A. Okay. 20 Q. All of these officers you met through LAPD, 21 Officer Andrew Lassak, starting with the year 2001, 22 none of them were ever contacted by you about false 23 imprisonment, right? 24 A. That's correct. 25 Q. None of those -- 26 A. Until when I tried afterwards between Mr. 27 Dickerman and the Santa Barbara sheriffs. And on 28 your thing they said, "Don't talk to any other 6534 1 officers but their department so the investigation 2 wouldn't be compromised." 3 Q. Before you went to Attorney William 4 Dickerman, you never contacted any of these officers 5 or trainees that you knew in your neighborhood about 6 anything you claim Michael Jackson was doing? 7 A. That's correct. I was afraid to talk on the 8 phone, because they were monitoring, listening and 9 surveilling me and following me. That's correct. 10 Q. Even when you were at your parents' home, 11 you never called LAPD Officer Andrew Lassak and 12 complained, right? 13 A. Because at this point I didn't have his 14 phone number. 15 Q. When did you lose it? 16 A. When he got married, out of respect, I 17 seized my communication with him. 18 Q. Well, you'd been to the Hollenbeck Division 19 Police Department before, right? 20 A. Yes, I had. 21 Q. Did you ever contact anyone from the 22 Hollenbeck Division Police Department and complain 23 about Michael Jackson? 24 A. Well, I no longer belong to their division. 25 I know -- because my apartment, because of them, is 26 no more existent there, so I'm not their problem 27 anymore. 28 Q. You still could have called them, couldn't 6535 1 you? 2 A. I didn't. Because of being monitored, 3 followed, surveilled, listened to. 4 Q. You didn't call them from Jay Jackson's 5 apartment, right? 6 A. That's correct. 7 Q. You didn't call them from your parents' home 8 in El Monte, correct? 9 A. That's correct. 10 Q. You didn't call them from Soto Street while 11 you were living there, correct? 12 A. That's correct. But I told the Santa 13 Barbara Sheriff's Department. 14 Q. After you went to Attorney Larry Feldman, 15 right? 16 A. No. Before. Jay Jackson called in about 17 February and that's when we communicated. That was 18 our first communication. 19 Q. You didn't fill out a police report with any 20 police department about anything until you went to 21 Attorney Larry Feldman, right? 22 A. We made contact with sheriffs, Santa Barbara 23 sheriffs, back in February. They were not helpful 24 to us. So there was this big gap until afterwards. 25 Q. When did you first meet Attorney Larry 26 Feldman? 27 A. After Mr. Bill Dickerman introduced me to 28 him. 6536 1 Q. Do you know about when that was? 2 A. I wouldn't be able to tell you. But they 3 could tell you best. 4 Q. To your knowledge, how long has Attorney 5 Larry Feldman been giving you advice? Don't say 6 what the advice is. I'm just asking you, as far as 7 you know, how long has Attorney Larry Feldman been 8 giving you advice? 9 A. I'm a little confused by the question, 10 because he's helped more than gave me advice, when 11 you guys have been bomb -- giving me all those 12 subpoenas. 13 Q. I understand. 14 A. That they even wanted my school records all 15 the way till I was a kindergartner myself. 16 MR. MESEREAU: Move to strike, Your Honor. 17 THE COURT: Just a moment. 18 That's stricken. 19 Do you want to rephrase the question? 20 MR. MESEREAU: Yes. 21 Q. If you know, for how many years has Attorney 22 Larry Feldman been giving you advice? 23 THE WITNESS: Your Honor, I'm having 24 difficulty with it. I'm telling you, "help" and 25 "advice" to me is different. 26 THE COURT: She's asking you to clarify the 27 question. That's -- 28 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: What you say to an 6537 1 attorney is confidential, and I'm not asking you 2 about your conversations. Okay? 3 I'm just asking you how long, in your mind, 4 Attorney Larry Feldman has been helping you. We'll 5 use the word "help." 6 A. Okay. Well, he felt that your defense team 7 was bullies. 8 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Objection. 9 THE COURT: Sustained. 10 MR. MESEREAU: Move to strike. 11 THE COURT: Stricken. 12 MR. MESEREAU: Your Honor, could the witness 13 be admonished to answer the question? 14 THE COURT: Ask the question again or have 15 the question read back, please. 16 (Record read.) 17 THE WITNESS: Okay. Every time they -- they 18 were sending me the subpoena, for example, 19 requesting all my school records, all the way till I 20 was a kindergartner, he's been helping me. 21 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Let me ask it one more 22 time. But if I'm not clear, just tell me. 23 A. Okay. 24 Q. What year did you meet Attorney Larry 25 Feldman? 26 A. In 2003. 27 Q. You knew some police officers from the MTA, 28 did you not? 6538 1 A. Yes, I did. I did meet them, but it was not 2 a close contact, as I was with Officer Lassak, which 3 I stopped because he had gotten married, and that 4 was it. And they no longer were in existence, 5 because a private security company took over the 6 metro bus division. So I lost complete contact of 7 them. 8 Q. And MTA means Metropolitan Transportation 9 Authority, correct? 10 A. Yes. They're underneath the ground. 11 They're police officers that were underneath the 12 ground taking care of the trains that run -- I don't 13 know whether they're train or metro rail. I don't 14 know the correct -- 15 Q. And you knew a number of officers with the 16 MTA, correct? 17 A. When that was dissolved, my -- as far as my 18 relationship was with them, every time me and my 19 children rode the trains, when we would see them 20 we'd say hello. But past that, once they were -- I 21 don't know what the word is. When they were gone, 22 no more, I didn't see them anymore. 23 Q. And how many officers from the MTA do you 24 think you knew, when you knew them? 25 A. It was about two. A male and a female, and 26 the rest were by sight. Every time we'd see them, 27 we'd say hello. But there was definitely more than 28 two that I recognized by face. 6539 1 Q. And were they stationed in the Hollenbeck 2 area? 3 A. No, they weren't stationed in the Hollenbeck 4 area. 5 Q. Where were they stationed? 6 A. They were stationed -- to my understanding, 7 they were stationed right there, underneath the 8 ground in the train rail system. 9 Q. And didn't these MTA officers help your 10 family out also? 11 A. Well, I don't know if you call it help, but 12 they also did some Christmas thing. 13 Q. And what was that? 14 A. They -- they took a liking to the kids, 15 because they saw the kids go off and on the trains, 16 and so -- and that was it. 17 Q. And approximately when did this happen? 18 A. Christmastime. 19 Q. Approximately what year, if you know? 20 A. I don't remember. But I do remember 21 Christmastime. 22 Q. Was it after 2001? 23 A. Oh. Oh, yes, yes. After -- after David was 24 arrested, me and my kids became free to have -- to 25 go beyond having friendships. 26 Q. And after David was arrested, it would be 27 accurate to say that you and your kids had a lot of 28 friends who were police officers, right? 6540 1 A. The only one we could say is Officer Lassak. 2 That's it. The rest were just people that we met, 3 but completely lost contact with. 4 Q. And through Major Jay Jackson, did you meet 5 anyone in the United States Army? 6 A. Not really. I -- no. I don't even go to -- 7 when Jay would have, like, gatherings from the Army, 8 I prefer not to go. Even to his -- even to his 9 going-away luncheon, because I knew I wasn't smart 10 enough to be in that kind of group. 11 THE COURT: Counsel, is this a good place to 12 stop? 13 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, Your Honor. Thank you. 14 THE COURT: All right. We're going to 15 recess for the weekend. Remember next Wednesday 16 afternoon, we're not going to be in session. I'll 17 see you Monday at 8:30. Remember the admonitions. 18 Don't talk to anybody. Don't read anything. Enjoy 19 the weekend. 20 MR. SANGER: When are we not in session? 21 THE COURT: Wednesday afternoon. 22 MR. SANGER: Wednesday afternoon we're not 23 in session. We're here Monday. 24 (The proceedings adjourned at 2:30 p.m.) 25 --o0o-- 26 27 28 6541 1 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE 2 3 4 THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE ) 5 OF CALIFORNIA, ) 6 Plaintiff, ) 7 -vs- ) No. 1133603 8 MICHAEL JOE JACKSON, ) 9 Defendant. ) 10 11 12 I, MICHELE MATTSON McNEIL, RPR, CRR, 13 CSR #3304, Official Court Reporter, do hereby 14 certify: 15 That the foregoing pages 6423 through 6541 16 contain a true and correct transcript of the 17 proceedings had in the within and above-entitled 18 matter as by me taken down in shorthand writing at 19 said proceedings on April 15, 2005, and thereafter 20 reduced to typewriting by computer-aided 21 transcription under my direction. 22 DATED: Santa Maria, California, 23 April 15, 2005. 24 25 26 27 MICHELE MATTSON McNEIL, RPR, CRR, CSR #3304 28 6542